Allan Langer: How to Sell Without Being a Salesperson — Authenticity, Customer Experience, and AI in Sales | Be Yourself Podcast

Allan Langer

Sales veteran, keynote speaker and author of Seven Secrets — on the anti-salesperson mindset, why customer experience beats product features, and whether AI will replace or simply expose fake salespeople

Watch on YouTube Allan's Website
32 minutes
Sales · Authenticity · Customer Experience · AI in Sales

About the Guest

Allan Langer — Sales Veteran, Keynote Speaker, Author

Nearly 30 years of award-winning sales experience and author of the best-selling Seven Secrets — a keynote speaker and coach built on one idea: people do not want to be sold, they want to be helped

He led the country seven years in a row for referral sales, a record he credits entirely to giving customers experiences so good they felt compelled to recommend him

Who He Is
nearly 30 years of award-winning sales success, author of Seven Secrets, keynote speaker and coach known for the "anti-salesperson" philosophy
Seven Years, #1 in Referral Sales
he led the country seven years in a row for referral sales — by giving every customer an experience good enough to put their name behind him
The Anti-Salesperson
authenticity means becoming the salesperson people enjoy meeting — arrive as a helper, ask questions instead of pitching, make it feel like a conversation
On AI in Sales
he uses AI as an assistant, never a replacement — the more automated sales becomes, the more valuable a genuine human connection is

Key Quotes

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Nobody wants to be sold. People want to be helped. They don't want to be sold. When they feel like they're being sold and not being helped, they're going to go somewhere else.

Allan Langer
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Closing is simply the extension of a great conversation. You get to the end of the conversation, you simply ask for the order. You simply just do it in a conversational way.

Allan Langer
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I'm here to help you whether you buy or not. I hope I'm in some help to you at some point during our conversation. That right there is going to lower sales resistance.

Allan Langer

Episode Chapters

0:00 Authenticity & Sales 1:42 Customer Experience 5:30 False Expectations 10:20 AI Messages on LinkedIn 13:30 Do Sales People Want to be Fake? 14:24 How to Ask Great Questions 17:30 Vulnerability in Sales 20:05 An Image of a Salesman from the US 22:50 Can We Be Friendly with Customers? 24:30 What Can Ruin Trust? 27:25 AI in Sales

Full Transcript

BTW: This episode of the Be Yourself Podcast is produced by Beverly Media. Want a podcast that looks and sounds this good? Check out Beverly Production →
0:00 Authenticity & Sales
Serhiy Hi everyone, welcome to the Be Yourself podcast, the podcast on expressing your true selves. Today our episode is about authenticity in sales. And my guest to talk about the topic is no other but Alan Langanger who's got almost 30 years of experience of award-winning sales success. He wrote a book on sales called seven secrets which was a best-selling book. He constantly gives a bunch of keynotes, workshops, and he also coaches people how to become better salesman. So, Alan, thank you so much for taking the time with me.
Allan Pleasure, Sergey. I I enjoy uh your your podcast and uh pleasure to be here.
Serhiy Alan, let's get right into it. When you hear words authenticity and sales put together, what do you think of?
Allan Well, that's easy for me. It's almost what my book is about. It it's it's not being the salesperson that they're expecting when you meet with them, either on Zoom or in the office or in a house. When people meet the salesperson that they don't want to speak to, um they shut down. Their sales defenses go up, their sales walls goes up, their resistance goes up. And it's because it's sales has been such a uh it's been trained so poorly for so many years. uh people are used to having a bad experience with a salesperson. So authenticity means to me becoming the anti-salesperson, becoming the salesperson that people enjoy meeting with and having a conversation with and therefore enjoying buying from.
1:42 Customer Experience
Serhiy How important is experience in our day and age? The customer experience.
Allan I It's absolutely the number one um reason people are buying today. I'll I'll give you I'll give you a study that was recently done. So right now just under 70% so let's call it 70% of consumers whether it's B2B or B TOC will spend more money on a better experience with the sales rep over a better product. Meaning if you have a product A and then a product B and A is better than B but the sales rep who delivers product uh product B gives that customer a better experience. the customer is buying product B even if it's not as good as A. Customers are are are putting their you know their their foot in the sand and they're saying we will not buy anything if I don't have a good experience with the sales rep and then consequ you you know subsequently with the with the company itself.
Serhiy Can you give some real life examples to back this up?
Allan Yeah, I mean I I well the the study was done I forget who did the study. It was on LinkedIn and you know I read it pretty pretty thoroughly. Um but let's for example let's say in the world of inhome sales you're selling windows. I actually met a person who told me this. He told me he just bought windows with his wife and they had three companies over the house. So they had uh you know two two rather well-known window companies, Anderson Windows and Pella Windows. When you look at both of them, both of those windows are pretty much the same type of product. They're all great. They're both great products. Then he had a third company come over called Champion Windows. Champions a good window. They're not at the level of Anderson and Pella, but they're good windows. And the pricing was relatively the same. Nothing drastically different. So when he told me this, I assumed he went with Pella or Anderson because they were the better products. I asked him which window did him and his wife decide to buy and he said Champion. And I was kind of blown away. I said, "Why? Why? Why would you go with Champion?" He said, "Because the sales rep gave us a great experience." I said, "What happened with the other two?" "Well, I kicked one of one of them out of my house cuz he was in my house for 4 hours. The other one didn't know what he was talking about, but the champion guy really listened to us. He understood what we looked for." But I asked him directly. I said, "But you knew the champion window wasn't as good as the other two." And he said, "Oh, yeah." He goes, "It wasn't, you know, way off." He goes, "But yeah, I knew it wasn't as good of a window, but I knew it was good enough, and we went with the experience over the product." He said that specifically, quote, and that was right after I read this study. So, so here was just a real person telling me, you know what, if I have a good experience with a sales rep, I'm going to buy that product, whether it's it's not as good as the other products. And it's it's been pretty amazing. Um, and I and I've seen this over and over again. And the the other thing to mention is when you're looking at people who are buying now, the actual consumer, the consumer is getting, you know, the the the the younger generations are now becoming purchasing consumers. They're buying homes. They're buying cars. And if you don't understand as a sales rep that that consumer is doing hours of research before they make meet with you and they're deciding, okay, I'm going to meet with these two or three companies. They've already decided, I'm buying one of these three companies. It then comes down to the rep. It comes down to the experience the rep is giving them. And if they give them a crappy salesfilled, you know, high pressure experience, they're not buying. So sales reps have to understand that today because it's not about features and benefits. It's about the experience.
5:30 False Expectations
Serhiy It actually dovtales with my uh recent contemplations about my work with my customers and some of the um negotiations that I've had recently. And my biggest concern was whether or not I should give them a false expectation, you know, and my idea about being authentic is pretty much about is pretty much being honest. Alan, of course, you know, so here's the question for you. When you don't have the product necessarily checking all the boxes being the the best on the market, how can you still sell even by giving this splendid experience? Well, you know, you know what I'm saying, right? It's difficult. How can you be authentic by selling something that you know in fact is not the best thing on the on the market?
Allan Well, let let me let me perhaps clarify. You're not going to sell a crappy product. If you're a salesperson who sells a crappy product and you know it's a crappy product, you're not a good salesperson because you're trying to sell people a crappy product. So, this goes with the assumption that for the most part all products are are are fairly similar today. You know, 101 15 years ago, you had a window down here and a window way up here, but now they're much much closer. And yeah, maybe the energy efficiency is a point off and maybe it doesn't look as pretty, but it's still going to perform relatively the same. It's the same like if I'm talking to you and you know you you you sell your your your video services and I talk to another person who sells video services, I'm going to make the assumption you guys are, you know, probably going to do a decent job, either one of them. So, I'm going to base it on my experience with you. I I just went through that. I interviewed three, you know, I I I've been talking to to to a few video people and and you're you're you're going to be one of them. But like, tell me what's my experience with talking to you? One guy was completely just trying to sell me. He wasn't asking me good questions. He was just trying to sell his services. And the other guy was asking me a lot of questions. So, I liked him a lot better because the experience was better. And that that translates to almost any product. So yeah, if you have if you're selling something that you know is not going to work, then you should not be selling that product. You should be doing something else. But for the most part, when you believe in your product, that's where the authenticity and the transparency comes through. You're not trying to to get one over on a person. You're just trying to be honest and saying, "Listen, I believe in this product. I'm going to be here to help you." Because the other thing the other way the brain thinks is if I have a good experience with you, that translates to me I'm probably gonna have a good experience with the company as well. So you you you're you're the you're the you're the because the management. Yeah. So that that's the way the brain is working and that's why they're feeling much more comfortable with that experience.
Serhiy Yeah. Yeah. In my case the results that I want to promise like I can always promise great quality, right? But uh people right now are sort of so obsessed with metrics and since we run YouTube for people people want me to promise them that they have will have millions of views you know and I'm being cornered with every single case to kind of kind of give them this promise because this kind of will help me to close while in fact I cannot guarantee anything Alan you know algorithm are impossible to to figure out. So I I'm try I'm kind of walking this uh line you know I want to be authentic but you know at the same time I want to sell and sometimes I can say that huh there are there is a great chance that we we will raise the number of your views but it's not a guarantee right.
Allan and that's where you you know you go to social proof and you show case studies and you show other people you've worked with that have had success that that's that's how you do that but again that that type of authenticity saying hey I can't guarantee it but I can guarantee you that it's going to go up and I can guarantee you you're going to have a great experience doing this and you're going to get more exposure. And by the way, look at these three customers that we just did last month and look at how they increase. So that makes you much more authentic than saying, "Oh yeah, I'm going to get you a million views. Sign here." You know, that that's just not going to work anymore.
Serhiy Yeah. Because that's what my customers constantly receive these pitches from Indians. Yeah. you know like they say they point out things that are done uh bad you know and they they they say hey we will do this better.
10:20 AI Messages on LinkedIn
Serhiy I think you have you have the same experience with people bombarding you right in direct messages I think you wrote a post about it.
Allan yeah it's it's it's incessant on on LinkedIn now it's unfortunate because now AI has just taken over the world and you know you can't you can't open LinkedIn today without getting 10 or 15 messages that are that are sent from bots. And I I still I don't get it. I don't understand. And there is no authenticity. There is no zero personality.
Serhiy Exactly. And and these people are still falling for the salespeople that are selling them these AI tools and and they go through a month or two and they realize this is terrible and they have to cancel whatever they signed up for.
Allan And you know I it's unfortunate but most of the time that doesn't work. Like people are getting smarter now. They're realizing that you know I'm getting this bot message. Why should why would I respond to this and buy this because it's not a human being. So I'm going to spend money without talking to a human. That's not authentic at all. So how do we become more human in our in our world of sales? I mean, I think you I think you do it, you know, with transparency. I think I think you just be upfront with people. And here here's what I I I I train a lot. You know, people are get hung up with the sales process or or what I need to say during a sales call. I got to I got to follow I got to have I got to talk about these five things. The problem is if you follow that as a process and you don't pay attention to the conversation, you're going to sound like a salesperson. you're going to sound like a robot following a process. You have to have the ability as the salesperson to yes, you have to bring up these three or four or five things so they understand it, but it has to be conversational. The person on the other end, your prospect has to feel like you're having a conversation, not a sales pitch. So, when I when here's a another word I hate in sales, it's called, you know, this the term closing, right? I got to get to the close. I got to close the customer, right? I always talk about closing. Anytime I talk to a sales rep, they say, "When I got to the close, I did this." I'm like, "No, you didn't get to the close." If you're thinking about getting to the close, you're compartmentalizing the process too much. And the and the prospect's going to feel that. Closing is simply the extension of a great conversation. You get to the end of the conversation, you simply ask for the you ask for the order. You simply just do it in a conversational way. You can do it by telling a story. You can do it by using social proof, but you can't you can't say, "Okay, wait a minute. I covered all right. I covered this. I covered A, B, C. Oh, now I'm at the close. Let me let me try to close the person." You can't do that. It's too fake.
Serhiy Yes. And I think when we think about the definition of any word, including authenticity, it's sometimes it's enough to think about the opposite. And the opposite to being authentic is being fake. And no one wants to be fake.
13:30 Do Sales People Want to be Fake?
Allan No, not only well there's there are many sales people who want to be fake because they think that's how they're going to sell. But the opposite is the prospect doesn't want to deal with anyone fake. See, nobody wants to be sold. People want to be helped. They don't want to be sold. When they feel like they're being sold and not being helped, they're going to go somewhere else. And too many salespeople sound like they're trying to sell people. I'm here to sell you, not to help you. Should be the other way around. I'm here to help you whether you buy or not. See, that's the big sentence. I'm here to help you whether you buy or not. I'm hoping this conversation, at the end of this conversation, I will be of of help to you whether you want to move forward with my product or my service or not. I hope I'm in some help to you at some point during our conversation. That right there is going to lower sales resistance because people are not going to say, "Wow, this guy's a typical salesperson.
14:24 How to Ask Great Questions
Serhiy Can you give some go-to questions for people to sound more human or listen better? Do you have questions that you can share with us on this show?
Allan So you the the biggest thing that a salesperson can do, I think it's the most um effective, powerful um is asking open-ended questions. Now, that's not a new concept. You know, asking open-ended questions, not a new concept, but I've gone on hundreds of ride alongs this year with sales reps, and the amount of sales reps that don't ask open-ended questions is an epidemic. They literally just start to sell right away. I tell you my problem, they say, "Okay, great. Here's my solution." I tell you, like, for example, if I'm talking to you and I say, "I need a speaker reel." And you say, "Well, great. Let me tell you what we can do. I can do this. I can do three minutes. I can do two minutes. I can do this. I can do that." And then all of a sudden, you're selling me right away. Instead of doing that, I say, "I need a speaker reel." You should say, "Tell me more about that. Why do you need a speaker reel? Oh, okay. I'm going to answer that question. I need it because of that. Wow. Well, in what ways will that help your business? Second open-ended questions. I'm going to tell you that. Wow. Describe for me once we do the speaker reel how your business might explode. Now you're bringing up the emotion in me. Well, I'm hoping I'm going to get more speak in three questions. I just be you just became the videographer I want to do business with as opposed to the guy who's just telling me, "Hey, look at all the speaker reels I've done and we can do this. we can do that and they start selling me right away. So asking open-ended questions as soon as the person tells the problem is absolutely critical critical in making that person feel comfortable with you and making that prospect feel heard and understood. See prospects who don't feel heard don't feel understood are not going to buy. They're going to move on to somewhere else because they don't feel comfortable and they'll just say great can you email me that or I'm going to think about it. you know, you get that typical objection that way. So, open-ended questions and I just gave you three right there are are ginormous.
Serhiy Yes. Beautiful. Beautiful. I think in a way what I do as I'm trying to become better podcaster is comparable with the role of a salesperson because as a podcaster I also need to learn how to ask open-ended questions and you know wonders happen wonders happen when I don't assume what the person going to say because a lot of times I ask something and I give my ideas of how the speaker can answer. Which I believe speaks to my insecurity because I want to manifest the fact that I know stuff. So asking these questions, open-ended questions, they kind of make you more vulnerable.
17:30 Vulnerability in Sales
Allan 100%. You could see the the key in all sales and I don't care if it's B2B or B TOC or whatever. Uh sales is emotional. People buy with emotion. Even if it's not their money, if they're the budget or the procurement officer of a company, they still have some emotion because they're a human being. Okay? But let's say you're it's a consumer sale or you know what you're doing. You're on LinkedIn all the time. You're talking to people. That that's an emotional sale. So that's what you have to bring up. The emotion behind the sale, not the logic. Logically, people when you say, "I should buy this." Logically, this makes sense. You're not buying because of it makes sense. You're buying because of how it makes you feel. You're buying because of the emotion. And that's what open-ended questions do. See, there's two different types of qu there's two types of open-ended questions. And this is where people make mistakes. There's logistical open-ended questions. A logistical question is a question that you need the answer to to come up with the quote. How long do you want the speaker reel to be? How many windows do you have? How long do you want your cruise to be? These are logistical questions that you can answer that you need the answer to to come up with the quote. That's that's an open-ended question, but it's not an emotional open-ended question. Tell me why you want to go on a cruise is an emotional open-ended question. If I'm a cruise salesperson, I I I did try I bring this up because I did training for for a call center for a cruise company once and there were 22 people on the call. Well, such a cool service selling the beautiful time spent. that they they sold cruises on the Mississippi River and and I had 22 people on the call. It was a virtual training and I asked them if they asked open-ended questions and everyone said, "Oh, yeah, we ask open-ended questions." So, I said, "Well, what do you ask?" "Oh, well, what dates do you want? How many people are going on the cruise? Where do you want to go? What time time do you want to sit down for dinner?" Like, those are those are open-ended questions. Yes. But all it got them was the information to quote the the the the trip. So I said to them, all 22, I said, "Did has anyone ever asked when someone calls why they want to go on a cruise?" And they were crickets. No one ever asked the question. And I said, "Just ask why." And if they say, "Oh, my grandfather just turned 90. We want to take him." Like, that's unbelievable information. Then you can ask, "Well, wow. Describe your grandfather to me. What kind of guy is he?" Now you become the you you you become the person that's helping them rather than selling them. So, that's how incredibly important open-ended questions are.
20:05 An Image of a Salesman from the US
Serhiy I I have an image of a salesperson in the United States. Maybe it's outdated, but I'm thinking about the wolf from Wall Street, you know, and the image of a person who's pretty kind of quirky or arrogant comes up and to to show the vulnerability for them is is a very dangerous thing to do, right? show that show that you don't know something because sometimes when you ask these questions the other party might might think that you you're not educated or something. So did you ever have this experience that people don't want to ask certain questions because they always want to look smart and is if the what is the right way to to behave here?
Allan Well, I I don't If you ask open-ended questions, you're never not you're never going to appear not smart. You're asking open-ended questions based on the customer and and what they want in front of you. Um but you you brought up a good point. Yeah. People have an expectation of the salesperson that they're going to meet and it and the expectation is the Wolf of Wall Street. It's the used car salesman. If you if you Google uh salesperson images, you know what comes up? Literally all the pictures of the used car salesman. That's what comes up. You don't even have to type in You don't even have to type in sleazy salesperson. You just have to type in salesperson and they and all of these images of these guys with the cigars out of their mouth or holding the contract, they come up. You don't even have to prompt it to be to be like, you know, sleazy salesperson. So that's that's the perception. So when you show up in front of that customer as the opposite of that, like I said earlier, the anti-salesperson, immediately the customer or the prospect will be drawn to you because they're not you're not what they're expecting. So that that's the key is you can't, you know, they have a they have a perception in their head of what's coming, you know, who they're going to meet, that what that salesperson is going to be like. And if you're like that, you're not going to sell. If you aren't like that, if you come across as someone who's going to help them, you got a much better chance.
Serhiy I think if we do our job like that or even if we just live our life like that and as an extension of the this belief system, we become better salespeople. Uh inevitably, we will be able to build more lasting relationships with our customers as well. Even more so we can become friendly.
22:50 Can We Be Friendly with Customers?
Serhiy Where is this line between being you know becoming too friendly and and and yet staying professional or it if it vanishes it's totally fine.
Allan I don't know if there's a line there. I mean obviously you're going to you're going to act as a human being and you're going to you know uh act accordingly based on the relationship you built with that customer. What you want to do is you want to build the relationship of trust because trust will then lead to referrals. Trust will lead to them talking about you. Oh you know I I if and that goes back to what we said at the very beginning the experience. If they have a good experience, that means they trusted you. That means you have a very very good chance of them referring you down the line. See, oneandone sales, that's another that's another aspect of selling today. You can't be a oneanddone salesperson. You have to approach every customer as if they're going to be a referral source for you, which means giving them a great experience. Wow. Because if if you know you if you don't get referrals, that means you're a pretty crappy salesperson. Even if you're selling, that means people don't trust you enough to refer you to someone that they know. When you get referrals, when I was in selling, I led the country seven years in a row for referral sales. And it wasn't by accident. It's because I did my damnedest to give my customers the best experience that they could have. And then they trusted me. And then when they met someone who needed my product or service, they said, "You got to call Allen." That's how you have that that's the mentality you have to have as a salesperson. How am I going to give them this great experience so they they will refer me later?
24:30 What Can Ruin Trust?
Serhiy I'm interested. We we just discussed what builds trust, but what can break the trust and if there is a friction in relationships. Uh what do we do? What do we do? Uh and if you have any examples, I would appreciate hearing them.
Allan Well, I think it was Warren Buffett who said it takes it takes years and decades to build trust and minutes to break it. You know, because you can do something I mean you know anybody if you say what would break trust people think of any you know someone you cheated on them they didn't tell they they you know in sales it's not telling the truth. if if you lie about something or or you make something up and then and then so let's say you give the you give your customer a great experience or the prospect a great experience and you tell them these three things are going to happen but then when the installation date comes or the delivery of the product comes and those three things doesn't don't happen you just lost their trust trust is gone you're no longer going to be referred and you're going to get a bad review so that's what breaks trust is when you don't when you don't uh follow up on the promises and and uh of what you told the prospect. So that that's an easy one in sales. But what if you tried so hard? What if you tried and you apologized?
Serhiy Well, it also depends on now if you told the truth. You said this is going to happen and it didn't happen for some reason that's out of your control.
Allan Let's say the delivery truck ran off a bridge and and it didn't show up. You have nothing to do with that. So now it's about how do you handle the problem the customer is having. See most customers are okay with issues. People understand that stuff happens. It's how you react to it and respond to it that creates that lasting trust. Cuz if you're This is another big problem in sales. Most sales people don't have any accountability. They make the sale, they're like, "Okay, see you later." And then 3 weeks later when the product comes in black and it's supposed to be white and that person calls you and says, "Hey, my product is black, I don't know, not my fault." Call the person who ordered it in the office. That's a no accountability salesperson. But the accountability salesperson goes, "Oh my god, I'm so sorry." You lead with empathy. Let me let me take care of this right away. I will I will make a phone call and I'll get back to you in five minutes. That's an accountability salesperson. the customer had a problem, but you're handling it. They're frustrated, but at least they know what you're doing. So, that's how you continue to build trust and and and keep that going. But if if you're a salesperson that something happened that was out of your control and you don't you don't try to help your customer or take accountability, again, you're just going to be mediocre and you're not going to get referred.
27:25 AI in Sales
Serhiy As we wrap up, I want to get back to to this topic of um artificial intelligence because when I looked up the world or the word artificial was also on the list of the words opposite to authenticity.
Allan Yeah, love it. Good point. So, are we living Yeah, it's an inauthentic world. It's we're becoming inauthentic in every possible way. Mhm. Well, that's why I think for me I think I think it may even become it's getting it's not easier to sell, but because there's so so much inauthenticity, lack of authenticity, so much automated things happening in the world, when people come across an actual human being that knows how to have a conversation, I think they're they're really going to gravitate toward that. They're going to be like, I I really like this guy. I mean, there there's there's AI systems out there now that actually will will actually do the sales call for you. It's the robot talking to you on a phone and responding based on your words. And it's and it's an actual electronic robot doing that, you know. So, humans will always need conversation, will always need connection, will always need to to be authentic. And the more they feel that from a salesperson, um the more that salesperson is that way, the easier it is it's going to be it's going to be to sell. For sure. No question.
Serhiy Do you allow u the help of AI in some of your processes and how you teach teams?
Allan Oh, absolutely. I mean, you can't you can't AI is an amazing tool. Like it it what it does is is mind mind-blowing. Um but you it can't replace you. So yes, when I'm doing training or I'm doing some some workshops and I have to put together a slide and I'm not crazy about how that's worded, I'll put that in AI and see if it can reward it and then I'm like, "Oh, that's an interesting idea." And then I can, you know, fudge it that way. I, you know, if I write a LinkedIn post, I'll have AI take a look at it and it'll come up with some some different words that I've used. But I certainly don't um use it to replace me. I use it to to assist me uh in in what I'm in in in what I'm doing sometimes on a daily basis. But it it's a it's a very helpful tool, but I I never will forget you never going to forget that they're talking to me, not to to an AI assistant.
Serhiy I think this is where the name of my podcast falls beautifully. Uh the name is be yourself. So I think we can recommend people just trying to stay themselves and uh even if they're sometimes be mistaken if they make mistakes that I I actually appreciate posts posts on LinkedIn that have mistakes because it's been written by a human being. Yeah. Right.
Allan Exactly. And it's it's absolutely authentic. It's like it's like when I first started doing videos, you know, one of the best pieces of advice I got was, you know, you know, uh, progress over perfection. Nothing has to be perfect. You can say um and ah and make a pause in a video and still post it because it's become it's it's much more authentic than the polished, you know, nice video that could be done could have been done by AI. And you you and I'll end with this because you you brought up a really good point. You know, be yourself is so important in sales because I I I use this analogy. We've all heard the radio disc jockey get on the radio when there used to be radios or for Spotify and everything, but when you listen to the radio and you have the D, you know, the the person, they have the radio voice, you know, like you and I are talking and I sound like this, but then I get on the radio, I'm like, "Good afternoon everybody and welcome to WPRJ." And you sound like you you you become that persona. Sales people do the same thing. They get in front, you know, they're a normal person. All of a sudden, they go into sales. Well, hi. And tell, is this the kind of window you want in your house and they sound ridiculous because they're not themselves. You don't have to turn into a salesperson when you're selling something. Just help the person. Lead with helping. Lead with with with with, you know, being um the the the person that wants to uh really help that person solve their problem, and you'll do fine. Don't Don't try to be a salesperson because you just it just won't work.
Serhiy Thank you so much, Ellen.
Allan You're very welcome. It was fun being here again.