CorneliusSchmahl

and they just gave me a phone and like, "Yo, just try to call some taxi drivers and get us some drivers on the road." Wow. That was really when Uber was no one.

We're losing hard like hardcore in Russia and in Ukraine against Yandex and then we like was supposed to turn around and get a decent exit on it and we luckily got a decent exit on it.

Where did you get your capital from to start investing in companies?

I got it from Uber cuz I joined Uber quite early on and then Uber IPOed. I sold my equity with the first business to the same investor and I was uh not ready for the money. I was really too immature.

Humans cannot evolve as fast as money can be thrown at a company in 99.5% of cases. Even at Uber it was like this.

Even at Uber we had way too much money and we did a lot of dumb [ __ ] If there's one thing that I'm asking people now, if there's one thing they can apply

from today is Hey everyone, welcome to the Be Yourself podcast, the podcast on expressing our true selves. Today my guest is Carelius who is a successful angel investor who invested into more than 100 startups, nine of which became unicorns. He's a shareholder in seven of them. He lives in house in Thailand and now he is growing his company scaling brilliance where he helps founders scale brilliant inventions. So Cornelius, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. It's my honor.

I already told you you have the best background I've ever seen.

Ah, yeah. It's nice. Oh, there's even a little shrine that my wife built. Yeah, it's really nice.

Yeah. Um, Cornelius, so you have you obviously have a very illustrious career with accomplishments that many people can only dream of.

If I were to ask you to pick the defining moment where everything started for you or and sent you on this journey, what was that moment or a sequence of moments?

It's probably the birth of my little sister when I was two and a half.

And I wasn't the center of attention in the world anymore. And then I had to get really crafty and successful in getting attention to me.

Interesting.

That is probably defining moment of that trajectory. And everything else is an expression of that.

Wow. So you learn how to be an adult.

No. No. I was my all of a sudden my parents didn't just completely give me all their attention but they gave obviously attention to my newborn sister who was also very sick.

So as every first born all of a sudden I didn't get this attention anymore and I was like [ __ ] I must be bad so I need to make up for it. So I need to be very good and um so that's why I was like trying to have good grades in school and all these things to you know get my parents attention or act out like a douchebag sometimes too.

Yeah. Um that kind of set the stone for that that work ethic I guess that then allowed that kind of results afterwards to happen.

And and on the business front, what what do you tell people as your go-to story? What is the main story that lets people understand uh like who you are in in business terms?

Yeah. Okay. So in business terms, um I was always working quite hard in business stuff, but I was never really into studying. Um and so when I was 22, I was studying at the University of Munich. I was already late to it because I repeated a class because I didn't bother studying. Um and then I got into a rocket internet and got a um kind of abroad internship which is was always my dream as like you know is the best thing you can kind of do as a student in business administration is getting an abroad internship not just an internship but a broad internship. I was really lucky to get one and um I was really lucky to get one because it was through a friend that I knew from all my outer school escaped and he got me into it through network basically and then I just worked like a [ __ ] animal there.

And where where did you live at the time?

I was in Munich, born and raised in Munich. Have never left Munich. And then I got this like hey Cornelius good news you're getting this internship. I like okay when is it starting? He's like, "Well, in uh 10 days." And I was like, "Fuck, I don't even have a passport yet. I didn't My parents were not very rich. I've never flown before." Um, so or never flown outside of anywhere, only very little with an so I needed a passport. And then I went to Thailand and then I worked they I mean they forced me to work super hard. Um, and then I learned how to work.

Yeah. And then I got into Uber and that just accelerated that whole thing of of just working very well.

So how did this transition to Uber happen?

Um, at Rocket Internet, I started as an intern and I started in the ops department where we had to basically build an warehouse logistics operation like for an Amazon comp copycat and um I read this book called um the everything store was about Amazon kind of a brief history of Amazon and it came out just about that time and they explained that everything changed when did when they did next day delivery and so we spoke about this more at the office and they're like you know what let's do [ __ ] next day delivery. And so we got our metrics on the global dashboard of Rocket Internet, which had like 30 or 40 similar ventures. And we went from more or less dead last because we're a new venture in a weird market, and to being top in the world in terms of delivering [ __ ] on the next day. Like if you order something with us, you get it the next day. You don't have to wait for two weeks and half of your orders get cancelled and you get a refund. Like that's how it was. And that got the attention of someone else working there.

And they were like, "Holy [ __ ] who's this guy? Hey, I need to bring She then got hired at Uber and then she brought me with her. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And you traveled where? So with Uber, what was the position and what did they want from you?

Yeah. So the position was ops manager in Munich which is basically every city has a marketing manager, an ops manager and a GM and um you dealing with basically taxi drivers or other people you can talk into driving for Uber. And I came there I was at Rocket Internet before I ran like decent size operation. I had a massive amount of power and control there um for the same day delivery thing because I could mess with everyone else's department and I was like really cool and very happy. And then I went to Uber and then they just it was a tiny office in a shitty building and they just gave me a phone and like yo just tried to call some taxi drivers and get us some drivers on the road.

Wow. That was really when Uber was no one nothing no one knew what it was right small company.

I haven't heard of it when they reached out to me. Um but in the process of me signing they then raised 200 I mean it has nothing to do with me obviously as I was dealing with my contract and signing and they raised 250 million from Google and then people like holy [ __ ] who's that company that raised that much money because back then it was like more money than now. Now 250 million nobody cares but and back then it was like wow okay they got to be doing something but still nobody knew about it in Europe. So, it was just like, yeah, me and another two guys and we're trying to harass taxi drivers basically and then hand out free flyers. Hey, try this [ __ ] out. Try this free taxi from us. It was really like very scrappy.

Yeah, I think I I I think I listened I watched the latest interview of the current Uber CEO uh with the Steven Bartlett at his

podcast and he said that in the early days where they were actually giving out phones to driver drivers.

Yes. So this is the real [ __ ] right?

Yeah. Yeah. And we had to it's I had to Maroify them. Maraki is a system that you use, a company that you use to basically wipe the phone clean, put a software on it that basically prevents any use of the phone other than using Uber.

And it was such a nightmare because we had to I mean, luckily my city was small and we grew really [ __ ] in Munich um in the beginning, but we still had to deal with hundreds of phones. Like we got crates. We made like an order from Apple for €100,000 euro to get us like 200 old iPhones and then we get the cheapest iPhones and then we do one by one open them up, upload this program and then the next and then the next. You would sit there for like 6 hours to just activate like 50 phones. It was really it was a lot of it was really shitty work. And we had to do customer support.

So, seven days a week you do customer support because [ __ ] happens all the time, right? Friday, Saturday night especially, people wake up the next morning like, "Oh, this guy lost his phone in the car. He doesn't know who he lost it with." Like all this [ __ ] you have to deal with. So, it's really

And you were like 44 at some or something. Yeah. Yeah. 23 24 when that happened.

Yeah. And Okay. And you already have the exper pretty experience of a really uh intense intensely growing startup.

Yes, that was the good thing about Rocket because we grew like in the year I was there. I mean we started at literally like 10 orders a day like there was nothing, right? And then after a year it was like 2,000 or orders a day which is like just in the warehouse that's an operation going on. Getting out 2,000 orders a day is is some something happening. Um it's like 100k euro a day uh in in processing volume is not that little. Um and so it was really cool experience. It prepared me well in terms of psychological madness for Uber.

Okay. So what were the next stops um monumental stops in your career? Can you

just list them or and then I'll ask you about some of them if you don't mind.

Yeah. Yeah. So, Rocket was really cool. I did a lot of cool [ __ ] lot of impact, big business. Then to Uber in Germany, shitty business, nothing going on. But then luckily, we were slowly getting better, but it was still embarrassment. But luckily, I then got to South Africa and because I got really good at getting drivers to do stuff that we wanted them to do and pricing, which turned out was super important for Uber. I didn't know I could have ended up liking other stuff, but my favorite thing was something that turned out to be really important. And so they sent me to Africa. So I did some Africa stuff there with expansion like pricing and then expansion into other markets in Africa.

And we learned to run markets remotely there because before that cities everyone had to be in the city. But it was so hard to find really really good talent in Africa for these topics that we needed. So we tried to run it more remotely and that was really cool because that prepared me then to go to Russia where we were fighting with Yandex and um Yandex is big. Yeah.

Yeah. Yanx is a big bear in Russia and um so we are we're losing hard like hardcore in Russia and and Ukraine against Yandex and then we like were supposed to turn around and get a decent exit on it and we luckily got a decent exit on it. But it was a really cool experience in terms of managing money and having power and uh yeah that was really cool.

I was um a bit launching in Germany. Um but in Africa there was there's a dedicated launch team. They come in and they hire the first person and they get the first drivers on the road and then there's a team that then runs it and integrates into the large organization and and we then that was then me um to see how we can keep them stable and actually then grow the markets after their initial kind of legal setup and some kind of a setup.

Yeah. So you're you're the one who's managing all the chaos. I mean people like you like in my I I'll be honest with you. You are I think all of the creative business people need on our team. So you're like someone who can uh manage the unpredictability, right? That's what would what you did.

Yeah, I I guess I mean it doesn't feel like it when you're in it because it's just so stressful all the time. Um, but I do think compared to slow work environments, I was used to quite a a lot of chaos. Yeah.

And then managing, I don't know, it's like an avalanche. It's like you're not managing the avalanche, you're surviving in the avalanche. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I remember when Yandex was um stepping into our market, dude, they they were giving free rides on of really luxurious cars or something like very cheap rides and Lexus RX 350 hybrid will pull up or Mercedes and you're like [ __ ] me you know they were doing something crazy but but obviously you were able to win Ukraine over time

we did not win Ukraine we did not win anything okay that's very clear we went from being absolutely murdered to being only half murdered and were able to then exit at a decent situation.

Oh, so you you exited in Russia. So you exited in Russia and in Ukraine. Yeah. So who who did you sell the company to? To Yandex.

Oh, really? They just bought you out. Oh yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That was the kind of we knew there is no [ __ ] way we can win against Yandex in their home market where they have all the maps and all the emails of the entire country. There's no way you can win this. And we were really like our corporate dev team was really crafty in devising a plan of how to get a a good merger out of them basically.

And that is not the total fire sale. And so they had us execute that plan uh to basically inflict maximum damage to Yandex that they're like [ __ ] we need to like buy these guys out otherwise our stock price goes down because they're making us burn so much money to keep market share.

Um Yeah. uh and they're public so they had to report every quarter and we started to make a dent into Yandex P&L obviously as the whole Yandex cuz they burn so much money on fighting with us in this ride sharing [ __ ] Um so they were like okay we're buying them in a decent deal. Um yeah that's kind it reminds me of how Zuckerberg was furious about because Durov's Kantact was kicking ass.

It was predominant. social network in Ukraine and Russia and and and Zuckerberg with all his money couldn't do anything about couldn't do [ __ ] about it. Exactly.

There's something about uh understanding your cultural mentality or something.

But but Yandex had maps which were was a big deal. Having great maps like means a lot, right?

Absolutely. I mean, for Uber, maps and email are like the two most important things because if they have maps and email, they know

where everyone goes who has our app on their phone and they know when they get an email from us. So, they know exactly what's going on.

So, they can identify who if they want to and if it's not legal, but doesn't matter in this situation. They can know who is an Uber customer and when did they drive from A to B and how much did they pay?

Wow. which means they can they can individually target all your good customers and just like bribe them away from you.

Um they know all your customers and how much they're paying where they go. So it's quite easy for them with that data advantage to compete with you and we were lucky enough that that we got the merger signed before they were fully able to exploit this and then

Yeah. Yeah. But it was it was fun experience understanding customer or uh even projecting predicting the customer behavior. But that's this is what's going on with the world right now. The biggest asset being sold is the customer data.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah. So that's uh I guess that's why now these AI companies are so valuable because they have all this immense data.

Let's see where that leads us. But yeah, was a very cool experience with Russia, Uber Russia.

Okay. And and so I'm going to ask you like a sensitive question, maybe not sensitive, what what but I introduce you and as an angel investor, where did you get your cap first capital from to start investing in companies?

From Uber. I got it from Uber because I joined Uber quite early on and then Uber IPOed or like at that time when I was in Russia 2017 there was a or beginning of 18 was a secondary share sale where I could sell the first of my shares and then Uber IPOed. So my stock that increased tremendously uh I was able to sell. That was my first uh in a sense exit and then I started angel investing from that because I quit Uber after four years. I was fully vested. I got married. Didn't want to go to Pakistan or any other crazy countries for Uber with my wife and because I was such a cowboy. I didn't want to go into like the big mothership organization after being you know in Russia and Africa. Um and so I stopped working at Uber and then started angel investing and with that got into coaching and I started um then businesses with sometimes with my clients um that I worked with and yeah so I got into that whole coaching and angel investing area.

Okay. With venture capital, it's always about like 10% or 5% of your investment that compensate for all the unsuccessful tries that you've taken, right? So the So tell me and it seems like your ratio is rather cool like nine successful bids out of 100. So can you tell us like

first of all name some of the companies that you invested into and secondly what did you see early on if there are some common patterns to recognize the next big thing.

Yeah. So two unicorns I worked I was I mean at Uber through that invested but I so seven were exchanges but um the ratio I guess is better than for other people. Um but I think it was like partially it's like there's pure luck in it. Um, and because I was through Uber in Angel Syndicates where through that network of Uber people, we were able to co-invest and I would I wouldn't have to do the deal origination. Like I'm not an angel guy who's just alone and he like writes checks, but I was generally part of a syndicate where someone who has a lot more clue than me was investing. Um, it's still I'm not a big fan of angel investing per se as like an asset class for most people unless you're like extremely filthy rich and it's just like you're gambling basically.

But because you get your money out so late and with very little like usually agency um that you have as a small angel investor, you the usually you're the exit liquidity like you're the first money in but then later bigger investors, the indust like the um just bigger professional investors, they usually have much better terms than you have because usually you don't have terms as an angel, right? But the later investors they get in uh they get preferences of all kinds of ways that then if the exit is not a 100 or not like amazing exit then you usually get squeezed out or it's much more likely that you get squeezed because they get their money out first and then the rest goes to like the founders and the first angels and if there's nothing left then well you know that's unlucky.

So you jumped on the bandwagon. Yeah.

Like there is you were just a part of a syndicate and they adise you.

Yes, exactly. There's there's an angel syndicate and they send you like every every week they send you a deal or two or three or whatever. Um and then you see which ones of these deals you want to take partake in or not. Um, but like I think it's one thing that might have helped and I'm not sure about if I'm just now backwards rationalizing it, but because I think it was like 80% dumb luck. I think I want to be clear on that and now I'm seeing the patterns afterwards. But in the in the in the beginning, I think one thing that I really what helped me is when I saw that this is a technology or something that is at least has the potential to be massive.

Mhm. because I worked at Uber, I worked at internet, these are like there's like billion dollar companies plus. So if I don't see this and think, holy [ __ ] this is a market where it's at least very possible, then uh I mean that's at least it gives you the possibility for that home run. Because with so many other players you look at it and it's like okay this would never be a big business and then you generally don't have the team that has the audacity to execute it and you don't have that upside potential and then it's just not worth it because the risk is kind of the same anyways if it's a small market or if it's a big market the risk I feel is is a bit similar. Yeah.

What you said is interesting that you at some point you realize that you don't want to travel the world anymore. you don't want to go into the third world countries and you were married at the time and you want you just wanted to settle down somewhere.

It's important to add into it that I had a slip disc from working like an animal.

Like I was like at at Uber Rush I was like smoking half a pack of cigarettes a day, drinking like five beers in the evening to like [ __ ] fall asleep.

Like it was a it was a nightmare. So you [ __ ] up your slipper. Yes. and through [ __ ] up my health.

And then they were like, "Oh, you have a slip disc in your neck. We want to like operate on you otherwise you become like quadripolgic or [ __ ] like this."

And that's what got me into this health thing. And um yeah, that's how this transition happened because I just noticed my body can't or doesn't want to handle these madness of, you know, flying around. I I lived out of out of a suitcase for two and a half years like hand luggage. That was all the [ __ ] I had. Um, and it's just like not a nice life.

Yeah, man. I have goosebumps because your story is so different from what I've experienced, but it's still in a way the same because I also as work my ass off in my first business where we were backed by a big uh investment group and I work as a founder who you know when founders think that they are free.

In fact, founders work for investors.

They were like, you know, I I was like a the biggest employee in in, you know, in my own [ __ ] company. So, and the way they they want you to push and push hard because they're they have no other interest but just for you making money for them, you know, and I really I really was working so hard and it messed with my uh nervous system, you know. I started doing I think you you you said on one of the podcast that you had some bad habits. So I started indulging myself in some Colombian powder, you know, and and doing lots of lots of [ __ ] that Yeah, that cost me then later.

Um so tell me about the transition.

uh and tell me a little bit about the new company that you started. So uh obviously you understood how to scale the companies. Now this is your f focal point. Uh you help uh businesses attract larger investments, right? Scale their companies to become appealing for uh bigger investments. So what was this transition like and what lessons that you learned in the earlier part of your life you've implement you're now implementing in the second phase of your career?

Yeah. Um so one part the transition it wasn't really conscious. I was building my own startup and then I got um my we we sold one and then I was building a second and during the time I was building it I got a bunch of inbound requests from like tech startups that you know some PhDs have a spinner from a university they raised 5 million or the other ones raised 100 million they're like yeah we need to make this commercially and build an actual business out of this um and so they raised but they didn't know how to how to how to use it yeah Because it's when you have two technical founders from top universities, they often get like one to five or more million just for the technology because it's so exciting. But to get the transition from, hey, we've built a technology that looks cool in a lab to well, how can we make this accessible to I don't know 100 million people or whatn not, however that techn whatever that technology is, that's a whole different skill set totally requires a very different mindset. And that's how I slipped into it and I just really enjoyed it.

I was doing my own uh working on my own startup and I felt like man it's so much more you know this I didn't do zero to one a lot. I always went into a place that there is already something going on and then go from like 10 to 10,000. I had experience with this but not zero to 10 and um with my own 0 to 10 in my second startup I was struggling with the product and I was like man this is so much more fun to have these guys they they had 100 the first client that came in had 100 million funding and that was like okay now I'm like in the game again of allocating money in efficient ways because that's what I did at Uber like it was a war of who can allocate money in this competition in the most efficient way and that kind of that mentality is I guess said, "What I've learned too in terms of like in Uber Russia, the idea was literally like where is the best money spent on in terms of getting us a good exit? Is it having whatever a table tennis plate in our canteen or a second one or is it giving drivers in ninovot this subset of drivers on a Tuesday afternoon in this in this suburb a 50 cent more per trip and that kind of I mean I'm obviously exaggerating a bit but these are where the questions we had to look at ourselves where's the money spent best for a certain return that we optim mis for and that is I think what I've learned was a major thing that I learned and that I'm now bringing to my clients is discipline about spending money and being data driven because normally they raise money then they just hire a bunch of people that are not very well trained they're not good at hiring they just literally blow through the money like someone who won the lottery in too many cases cuz it's just like you got the money for literally not not having done it yet and now you can spend it without having to do the thing you actually should be doing so it's very easy to get to better and I think that is the one part on the money but Jerry it's a lot about focus because all these companies that we invested in that were successful and the ones that that I worked at that were successful that I coached if they're not focused they are not going to succeed like focus and speed with that is I think utterly essential that's with some clients it's like 80 or 90% of the work I do with them is just always trying to get them to focus on that thing that needs to happen.

Simplify their product offering and just like solve this one problem extremely well and focus all your energy in the company on solving this one problem very well and not build like a super app globally, you know, like kind of things.

But this discipline, this daily discipline that you need to measure [ __ ] every day and go hard at it every day, that's what I usually bring to my clients.

which is not for everyone.

You know, my first business we were or our northstar metric was revenue. And you know, I had Chris Do on my show and he says that uh revenue is vanity and uh profit is sanity.

But for startups, I think they they all care about revenue only because you know having good good flow of money will almost definitely get you another round of of invest in investment. That is true statement. But you focused on revenue for the most part. Depends super hard on the client.

Really? Mhm.

Because Yeah. Because I mean it depends on the stage of the client. Um sometimes they shouldn't think about revenue at all because it's so much more easy for them to get funding than to generate revenue. So then we would focus on some totally different metrics. Um like I mean for example Facebook they were not looking for revenue for a long time.

They only looked at signups and then they looked at like time on the on the page like user user using the platform whatever it is.

They don't go you don't necessarily always go for revenue first. But I do think that like now with having done so much venture funding with my clients, I'm now really I think the biggest learning over the last 5 years or so of doing coaching and fundraising and then deploying the money is that not getting funding is often the best thing that happened to people.

Right. Right. like not like bootstrapping it. It's or or being very lean on it is is just usually a a a more direct and clean way to be successful because you're just removing all this clutter of now your boss is not you.

You're not the boss of your company, but it's a 24 year old investment analyst on his third assignment who's now harassing you four times a week about some [ __ ] numbers in your business case.

Like that's what happens to founders when they get VC funding sometimes. um versus if there's no VC, that's a whole dimension of problems you never have to encounter cuz you just can focus on your customers and on delivering the best product and you don't open up a third kind of operation in your business which is like fundraising and making a hiring too many people that you don't need and like then you know fundraising again and then firing them all again and then investor relations and board meetings and all this [ __ ] which has nothing to do with the with delivering value to your client. So that's why I'm really changing my approach to coaching a lot or have changed it now to get companies profitable which is usually a lot easier when you starting to see what has happened because most people think very linear like just need to get funding and then I make losses again I do funding and in 90% of the cases that's utterly preventable. It's like it should be the last resort should be getting funding.

Yes. Well, this it mirrors my current life path because right now I'm building an an agency where I'm not looking for any investment. I'm 100% owner of my company and I live off the net profit. So, my net profit is now my main metric. And exactly what you say, it helps me grow and mature more uh in a more healthier way, you know, because when I when I because I sold my equity in with the first business to the same investor and I was uh not ready for the money. I was really too immature even though I was 29, but I kind of laid had a late start to my life. And this money that I got on my hands actually like spoiled me about getting money at age 50.

Yes. Yes. That is so good that you're saying this.

That is so good. And I think a like 29 is not an old age. Like honestly I see people who raise 2 million and they're 50 and they just like act like 14 year olds and blow it on like [ __ ] So it's not about really the ages. It's not like that. But I I think exactly what you're saying because when you bootstrapped it's like you're going through class in like you go layer your first grade, second grade, third grade, fourth grade.

You just go through it in a linear manner. And with funding and that's why often my funding advisory you know it has it might have been not so helpful in the back in or like in long-term not so ideal even in the in in rich perspective because like when you now fund raise you have a you're second degree but you're ra you're fundraising as if you have fifth grade you're only second grade but you're fundraising like you're fifth grade and now you put the expectation to investors oh yeah well I'm going to be like eighth grader in 6 months and would you not and Then it then all this [ __ ] happens because you people are skipping steps and then you get a fundraising advisor like that was what I often did. I would get help my clients get even more money at an even higher valuation. So instead of skipping from second grade to fourth I get them to skip from second grade to seventh which is a [ __ ] nightmare and impossible. Nobody can do that. And then obviously there's some kind of a painful situation with overhiring, firing, down round like this [ __ ] happens. Um because humans are cannot evolve as fast as money can be thrown at a company in 99.5% of cases.

Even at Uber it was like this. Even at Uber, we had at some way too much money and we did a lot of dumb [ __ ] and then thank God they were able to iron it out before we burned the ship to the ground.

But like yeah, it's a really crazy ride and most people are just not ready for it.

It's just not Be careful what you wish for.

Be careful what you wish for. Um, so I want to ask you more on the personal note,

was there ever a threat to your to how you viewed life or how you managed the business? maybe from the people uh above you. Did you ever have to be someone else? And if not, how did you protect your, you know, life philosophy or the way you view things?

So, I think that the quest of how much I've trying to be someone else is just slowly unraveling.

Like I think I've been different people that were not my real self um since I was born. Trying to appease my parents in a way. Trying to like be the good boy. Trying to be like now the reasonable older brother or whatever I needed to be in that moment. Um and that has I think gone through my whole life.

And now I'm just slowly starting to, you know, it's like layers and layers of confusion and of like falseness in a sense of like not being real, not being my true self. And it's just like over the years more and more of these layers are slowly being peeled off by my therapist basically. and you know working with with my own [ __ ] with doing yoga with doing doing exercise doing a lot of therapy and now slowly these coaches in a sense that I have are peeling off um these layers of confusion and dumb [ __ ] basically I don't and I don't know where I am right now it's getting better I'm less confused and less not knowing that I'm some pretending to be someone else who I'm not um than before But I don't know where it will lead me. I'm certainly not anywhere close to there. So yeah.

But what what do you what do you think are your core values? What are your virtues at this point in life?

I think my virtues are that I'm getting more and more fearless in pointing out the truth and like not being afraid to see things as like call things as I see them, not trying to appease people as much anymore.

Mhm. But in terms of like I don't know moral values in that sense, I don't know. I'm just very It's very important for me that people are in a good mood and are happy and that they're not being damaged. So that's why I'm like getting more and more into health care because I felt like, you know, there's so much dumb [ __ ] happening in healthcare with my with myself that I saw with my slip disc and my family that has various health issues. So I'm seeing, hey, I don't like when people suffer unnecessarily.

Mhm. and uh or innocently to a certain degree and um so I'm trying to see how I'm can contribute to that. I think that is a value. I don't like people suffering so I'm trying to do something useful which is why my clients are either clean techch. They used to be very clean tech heavy and now over time I realized that the benefit that clean tech does to civilization is not as much as going more straight to health. So I'm working more and more with clients that are related to health topics. Um, but that's kind of the north star of I think my whole being of trying to be useful.

Um, how much psychological garbage is in there, we'll see. And it's gone I've gone through iterations of that. But I think just that trying to be useful and not harm people is quite that key value.

Yeah. But if that's myself, I know hopefully.

Yeah, I think we we're on this quest to finding ourselves and people can reinvent themselves a multitude of times in life.

Absolutely. And it's just an ongoing ongoing thing. Yeah.

Yeah. I think I think this is actually beautiful. You ask what is the value of mine? I think I'm not afraid anymore to reinvent myself and to like be willing to let go of that old thing that I thought gives me safety and but it just doesn't it's not the real thing anymore. It's not the right thing anymore. I've maybe evolved. So there's some new way and I don't know what the next thing is. Sometimes I'm very lost in between and then I have to reinvent myself again and something new will come out. But I think if I'm asking if there's one thing that I'm asking people now, if there's one thing they can apply from today

is ask themselves what are they running away from? What am I running away from? Maybe being scolded by my parents, maybe being whatever hit.

And what am I running towards? Am I running towards safety? Am I running towards feeling loved? them are running towards being affect getting affection.

I think these questions are very helpful to people. If there's something anyone who listens thinks or ask wants to ask themsself at night like what am I running towards what am I running away from or trying to avoid two very helpful question for me in this long journey of being less mad basically thank you wholeheartedly Cornelius that was wonderful let's see maybe if just one person asked himself one of these questions it was absolutely worth cuz that's I think the only way we heal asking ourselves these questions that are uncomfortable and then dealing with the result of that.

Yeah. So thank you that was a great conversation Cornelius. Thank you. Such a pleasure.