Jared Goyette: Journalist on George Floyd Coverage, Ukrainian Media, Mass Protests, and Finding a Calling in Kyiv | Be Yourself Podcast
Be Yourself Podcast

JaredGoyette

American journalist and expert on mass protest movements — on covering the George Floyd protests, getting hit by a rubber bullet near the Minneapolis third precinct, the hidden mechanics of how media shapes public perception, challenges for Ukrainian media reaching global audiences, and how a life lived one step at a time led him from rural South Carolina to hosting a Portuguese news show in Kyiv

39 minutes
Journalism · Media · George Floyd · Ukraine · Mass Protests · Calling
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About This Episode

What Does a Journalist Learn When He Gets Hit by a Rubber Bullet — and Decides to Stay in Ukraine Anyway?

Jared Goyette did not plan to end up in Kyiv. He was covering crime in Minnesota, slowly accumulating a decade of experience in local and national journalism, when the full-scale Russian invasion began and something he had been following for years — Ukrainian politics, Ukrainian people, the Revolution of Dignity — suddenly became the center of the world's attention. He felt he hadn't done enough. So he started editing English translations of Ukrainian literary journalism, one piece at a time, for free. That turned into a volunteer position. That turned into a job offer. And that job brought him to Kyiv.

He had already seen what mass protest movements look like from the inside. During the George Floyd protests in Minneapolis, Jared was on the ground near the third precinct as the situation escalated. He watched a young YouTuber get hit in the head by a rubber bullet and fall hard. Jared kept shooting. Moments later, he was hit himself — in the temple, just below the eye. A colleague in the same area was not as lucky: she lost her eye entirely. The legal case that followed, and the surveillance video Jared helped obtain, became key pieces of public understanding of what happened during those days.

Now he is in Kyiv, running English-speaking clubs, hosting Q&A sessions with guests ranging from Apple engineers to authors, editing translations for Ukrainian media, and preparing to launch a Portuguese-language news show on UATV directed at Brazil — because there are not many Portuguese-speaking journalists wandering around Kyiv, and Jared spent several years in Brazil and speaks the language. He didn't plan any of this. That's exactly the point.

01
How Jared chose journalism — giving himself permission to pursue what he actually loved
Born outside Philadelphia with a love of reading and politics but parents who encouraged safe career paths, Jared interned in government offices in DC and found it too dry. A Christopher Hitchens speech pushed him over the edge. He started by interviewing musicians and worked his way in from there — without a journalism degree.
02
The journalism sweatshop — writing up to 14 articles a week in rural South Carolina
His first real journalism job was in deep rural South Carolina — low pay, far from any city, and a pace of up to 14 articles per week. It built muscle memory for finishing, for structuring, for meeting deadlines without overthinking. He still draws on that training every time a deadline appears.
03
How Ukraine got on Jared's radar — from the Orange Revolution to daily calls with Maidan protesters
Ukraine first appeared on his radar during the Orange Revolution. When the Revolution of Dignity happened in 2014, Jared was in Miami working for Fusion TV — Univision's English-language channel — and convinced them to cover it. His job became daily contact with protesters on the square, pre-screening their English, and coordinating live satellite TV interviews.
04
Covering the George Floyd protests — surveillance video, rubber bullets, and what mass protest movements actually look like
Jared was on the ground in Minneapolis from the first days of the protests. He helped obtain surveillance video from a nearby store that became a key piece of the public record. Near the third precinct, he documented a young man getting hit in the head, kept shooting, then was hit himself in the temple. A colleague lost her eye in the same area. George Floyd was not a single case — there was a slow build, just as there always is.
05
Challenges for Ukrainian media reaching global audiences — context, translation, and knowing what your reader already knows
A story written for Ukrainians assumes a baseline of knowledge that an American reader simply doesn't have. Jared works with Chtomo and The Ukrainians to bridge that gap — editing translations, adding context, thinking carefully about which stories can travel and which ones need more scaffolding to land outside their original audience.
06
How not having a plan became a plan — following one step at a time from Minnesota to Kyiv to Brazilian TV
Jared doesn't operate on six-year plans. He follows what's in front of him, takes the next step, and sees where it leads. That approach brought him from editing Ukrainian literary translations as a volunteer to living in Kyiv and preparing to host a Portuguese-language news show about Ukraine for a Brazilian audience — a scenario no suburban kid from Philadelphia could have planned.

About the Guest

Jared Goyette — American Journalist, Friend of Ukraine, and the Man Who Followed One Step at a Time into Kyiv

Jared Goyette is an American journalist with extensive experience in politics, culture, crime reporting, and mass protest movements. He studied geography and urban studies — not journalism — but found his way in by starting small: interviewing musicians, finding internships, taking a low-paid job in rural South Carolina where the pace of up to fourteen articles a week gave him a muscle memory for deadlines that he has never lost.

Ukraine first came onto his radar during the Orange Revolution. When the Revolution of Dignity unfolded in 2014, Jared was working at Fusion TV in Miami and made it his job to help coordinate daily live coverage with protesters on the Maidan square. He has been following Ukraine ever since. When the full-scale invasion began, he felt the weight of having stepped back. He started editing English translations of Ukrainian literary journalism for Chtomo — the first time for free — and that single step eventually brought him to Kyiv, where he now lives and works.

In Minneapolis, covering the aftermath of George Floyd's murder, Jared was present at some of the most intense moments near the third precinct. He helped obtain surveillance video that became central to public understanding of the events. He was hit by a rubber bullet in the temple. A colleague lost her eye nearby. He knows from experience — not theory — what it means for a media narrative to shape or miss the truth of a mass movement.

In Kyiv, Jared runs English-speaking clubs, hosts Q&A sessions with international guests, edits translations for Ukrainian media outlets including The Ukrainians, and is launching a Portuguese-language news show on UATV aimed at Brazil — drawing on years he spent living in Brazil and the Portuguese he learned there. He believes in Ukraine, in its people, and in a future that the country is finding its way toward despite everything.

Who He Is
American journalist with experience in politics, culture, crime reporting, and mass protest movements. Currently based in Kyiv — editing translations for Ukrainian literary media, running English-speaking clubs, and preparing a Portuguese-language news show on UATV directed at Brazil.
Why He Is in Ukraine
Followed one step at a time: started editing Ukrainian literary translations as a volunteer after the full-scale invasion began, which became a job offer from Chtomo and The Ukrainians. Now lives in Kyiv, contributing where he can — to media, to English language learning, and to telling Ukraine's story to the world.
The George Floyd Story
Was on the ground in Minneapolis from the earliest days of the protests. Helped obtain surveillance video from a nearby store that became key public evidence. Was hit by a rubber bullet in the temple near the third precinct. A colleague in the same area lost her eye. His coverage led to a legal case and shaped how those events were understood nationally.
His Philosophy
Follow one step at a time. You don't need a six-year plan — you need to look at what's in front of you and take the next honest step. That approach, combined with a love of diving into things he knows nothing about, has brought him from a geography degree to Kyiv to Brazilian television. He also believes: if you dedicate yourself to writing, you will get back what you put in.

Key Quotes

"

George Floyd wasn't like a single case. No, and that's that's key to understand. If you look at any of them like what's happening in Turkey or what's happening in Serbia now there'll be one like thing that causes the mass protest but then behind it is there was a slow build up.

Jared Goyette
"

I end up in this spot not because I had a plan like I just I try to I I I follow one step and then try to take that the next step based on what I see in front of me and I've lived my life like that.

Jared Goyette
"

Where people are extremely practical like in the sense of like okay we have to get something done how are we going to do it what are the best tools what are the best people you can help okay come on let's go.

Jared Goyette

Episode Chapters

0:00 Episode Teaser 1:00 How Jared Chose Journalism 4:40 Reporting as Entry Level Work 6:47 Mastering Timely Writing 8:19 When Ukraine Hit Jared's Radar 11:12 George Floyd Coverage 16:40 Bridging Race and Peace 18:04 Coming to Ukraine 25:23 Challenges for Ukrainian Media 27:50 The Culture of Innovation in Ukraine 30:38 Comparing Ukrainians and Americans 32:32 Jared's Vision for Ukraine's Future 35:20 New Project with Latin America 36:40 How Not Having a Plan is a Plan 38:00 Finding a Calling

Full Transcript

BTW: This episode of the Be Yourself Podcast is produced by Beverly Media. Want a podcast that looks and sounds this good? Check out Beverly Production →
0:00 Episode Teaser
Jared So to get a job uh sometimes uh at at that entry level position, you have to go where no one else wants to go. You have to go like to areas where they can't find reporters that want to go live there. You were seeing something and you had to capture immediately. First floor it wasn't like single case.
Serhiy No.
Jared And that's that's key to understand. If you look at any of them like what's happening in Turkey or what's happening in Serbia now there'll be one like thing that causes the mass protest but then behind it is there was a yeah there was a slow build up the differences between Americans and Ukrainians as people some of it's culture some of it's accentuated because of the the current context of the war but where people are extremely practical like in the sense of like okay we have to get something done how are we going to do it what are the best tools what are the best people you can help okay come on let's go.
1:00 How Jared Chose Journalism
Serhiy Hello everyone welcome to the be yourself podcast today. My guest is Jared Goyette who is a friend of Ukraine. He's a journalist with rich experience dealing with politics, culture, crime reporting. Jared uh runs speaking clubs here in Kiev, Ukraine, and recently he started a new show at UAV where he speaks Portuguese. Jared, thank you very much for joining me.
Jared Thank you for having me, man. We've known each other for I don't know maybe a few months. We met at one of the English Yeah. speaking Exactly. clubs. And I I just instantly realized that this guy loves what he's doing.
Serhiy Because you were speaking uh beautifully about your profession journalism. So my question, my signature question, Be Yourself podcast is how did you uncover or discover your passion? How did you find the profession that really fits your values and that you enjoy every single day? Tell us about journalism.
Jared Well, I think my uh my process of fully embracing journalism uh as as as my path was about uh giving myself permission uh to do it because I had um you know I I always loved of you know from my mother I got a love of reading, a love of writing. It was always something that uh I was passionate about and and politics. Um, but my parents didn't come from rich backgrounds. I mean, they they they I I grew up middle class, but their backgrounds were rougher. Where were you born? Uh, I was born um outside of Philadelphia. Okay. Uh, and what I'm getting at, though, is that, you know, they would always encourage me to go like on a on a on a safe path um financially. They're like, um, and my my father had always worked for the government, so I thought, okay, that's what I'll do. So, I thought I would go into like uh maybe work for an embassy, maybe work for a development bank, work in those kind of words. And I tried it. I I was a an intern um in those kinds of offices in DC. And I found it was way too dry for me. Like I I knew the Rook was important, but I didn't want to be stuck in an office all day. I wanted to be talking to the we're dealing with political ideas, but I wanted to be talking to the people impacted. I didn't want to be just in an office, you know, talking theory. Um, not that that's not that's not important, I just felt like it wasn't me. Uh, reporting was something that was enticing you more.
Serhiy Yeah.
Jared I was like, but I I had to get over this idea that, oh, that's you can't do that. That's not uh that's not safe. That's not responsible. There was a speech uh I watched uh very it was by uh you know, he's a he's a he's a writer who I agree with on some things and not on others, but uh on that day, Christopher Hitchens is his name. And um he had a he was giving a speech and he said something to the fact of like if you dedicate yourself to this field like writing in opposition uh you will get back what you put in. Uh and that was the idea. Those aren't his exact words. And I was already like on the edge of like wanting to jump in but having the hesitancy. And I just I those when I heard that speech those words like stuck with me and like you know what? I'm going to try. I'm just gonna put my blinders on, stop hesitating, and try to make it work. Uh, I was in my 20s. Um, and, uh, I was near the end of my college. Uh, major geography and urban studies. Uh, not related to journalism. No, I mean, anything can be related to journalism because you can do journalism about anything. But no, I hadn't I you know uh I was you know doing that a bit of Latin American studies and uh I I realized that okay I want to do journalism.
4:40 Reporting as Entry Level Work
Jared In journalism thankfully you can work your way in. So I you know the I started reaching out to people finding a gig where I could interview musicians and started there and eventually got an internship and eventually got a job.
Serhiy Okay. What was the first job?
Jared Well, um so I was in the position of not having studied journalism. Um but needing to get like that first that first job is difficult like you really need it to establish yourself as officially a journalist. and I had some articles that I'd written at that point. Um, so to get a job uh sometimes uh at at that entry level position, you have to go where no one else wants to go. I think so. Yeah. Um and that means in the middle of nowhere. Um dangerous or not well received. You mean some type of subject that no one wants to cover or what do you mean? No, I mean physically like you have like you have to go like to areas where they can't find reporters that want to go live there. Uh so I went um No, no, I went to like a low paid job in the middle like in in deep deep rural South Carolina. Uh and it's a beautiful area. I'm not trying to say that no one wants to live in South Carolina, but no people generally don't want to take low paid jobs that far out of the cities. Uh but yeah, it was a rich experience. I I gained so much from being there. It was tough. Uh because they really make your work when you're a young journalist trying to prove yourself.
Serhiy Okay. Okay. And what did that experience teach you that later helped you abundantly in life and and work?
Jared Well, it it it uh it was just a rep like we had to write something like uh up up to 14 articles a week.
6:47 Mastering Timely Writing
Jared So your writing you were uh really having a lot of practice in writing was you were seeing something and you had to capture immediately like like you couldn't like you couldn't before I would have like oh like thinking carefully over every phrase and you know no like you had tough deadlines every day you had to finish it. It was the art it was the art of finishing what you had to do every day because you had no choice. And um that just it could have created a muscle memory in me of like how to do this and how to and how to structure it and how to get to the end product uh without overthinking.
Serhiy I mean this knowledge and maybe even this skill set of writing by the deadline because as an artistic person myself I know how difficult it is to do something by the deadline. Artistic people they don't want have deadlines. Yeah. But you you knew that there is a deadline and you delivered every single time. And now does it help you in whatever project you take on now that experience?
Jared Yeah, it it does because uh you I was in this like you know almost like a journalism sweat shop like or journalism like intense uh background uh environment where I produced a really high amount and it's like I met all these deadlines. They were difficult but I did it. I got used to it. So now when I get a deadline, I'm like I, you know, I know I can do it. Like I I don't have as much fear as I maybe did once upon a time.
8:19 When Ukraine Hit Jared's Radar
Serhiy Let's talk about uh Ukraine and how you first what was the first time when you took notice about Ukraine and you realized that this country is something that I want to cover?
Jared Uh it was a while ago. It was the the the first time I started to pay like Ukraine came on my radar was Orange Revolution. Yeah. Uh and that whole trajectory, the the protest, the poisoning, the the the whole thing. Um I I was interested in protest like in and mass movements and and how they work and Ukraine was new to me and I was like oh uh that's I sort of started to follow the politics and then when Euran happened um revolution of dignity I was working at a TV station um and I convinced them that we should be covering it. Uh it was a national TV station uh an was it was an English language offset of a Spanish of Univision called Fusion. Um I convinced them that we should be covering it. Uh there are other people also who of that opinion but it became part of my job to help coordinate that coverage. That meant that I was talking to people on the square um that were part of those protests uh on a daily basis uh and followed it very closely and that whole the whole trajectory of uh of that revolutionary moment uh really stuck with me.
Serhiy I was participating in the orange revolution and I can testify from my own experience that the feeling of being united with your fellow citizens over one mission is something incredible and I don't I don't want to to say that I wish this experience for all of us right but that's definitely a worthy experience um you unite in the face of this of one enemy and this is exactly what happened in February. Where were you when you covered Orange Revolution?
Jared Well, I Orange Revolution was just me like reading about it and then when the Revolution of Dignity happens, I was in Miami. So, I was completely remote. Um, but I was in that was that was my first like daily contact with Ukrainians. Uh, I was it was my job to interview, do a pre-in, make sure their English uh was good enough to be on TV. Uh, and then, um, if it was, uh, I would send their story to the TV producer and help coordinate when they would go to a satellite truck, uh, that we were renting, uh, where they were, they would be interviewed on live TV.
11:12 George Floyd Coverage
Serhiy Let's segue a little bit because it seems that the uh, George Floyd incident happened before that, right? Or after that? uh that I'm going to segue just caveat to talk about uh this moment in your life. Uh can you give us details?
Jared Sure. So uh revolution dignity 2014 uh so the George Floyd thing happens after um right after co 2020. Um yeah I moved to Minnesota from Florida to be closer to my daughter. um uh you know her um her mother and I separated a while ago, but we still we have a really good co-arenting relationship.
Serhiy Give some some advice on this.
Jared Yes. Uh it's one thing I'm proud of in my life. Like marriage I wasn't great at. Divorce. I'm really great. I'm you know yes how to get divorced successfully. So, you know, I my daughter was like around like between the ages like three and five. I realized it was really hard to do remote. So, I go to Minnesota. Um, and I eventually found myself in a in positions where I was uh um covering uh um a sequence of police shootings. Jamar Clark um happened as I arrived there. I didn't really cover that, but there was Justine De Man, Philando Castile um and eventually leading up to George Floyd.
Serhiy George Floyd wasn't like a single case.
Jared No, and that's that's key to understand like a lot of times when you when you have these mass protest movements, you know, as we're as we if you look if you look at any of them like what's happening in Turkey or what's happening in Serbia now, there'll be one like thing that causes the mass protest, but then behind it is building up. There was a Yeah, there was a slow build up and that was definitely the case uh in uh with what happened uh with the murder of George Floyd.
Serhiy You were covering it and what happened to it?
Jared So, um I was there pretty quickly. Um you know, the next uh the next day where protests were pretty uh were just starting to begin. Um I got in touch with the Washington Post uh started sending them uh uh feeds. One thing I was proud of is that we managed to get some surveillance video uh from a nearby store uh that captured which wasn't easy, right? No, because you know the stores are they're anxious, they're worried, they're like, should I should I do this? And our, you know, at at our job, part of our job is is to is to, you know, observe the police and the and and the investigation. And we um we wanted to independently verify what we could uh as terms of of of what was was happening. And getting that surveillance video, I think, was key in terms of the public's understanding of of what happened during that murder. It wasn't the only piece of the puzzle, but we needed to have as many pieces as possible. So, that was important. Um, but you know, as what I'm probably most known for is um as the protest grew uh more intense, especially near the local police station, the third precinct, I as I was I remember I remember arriving and like seeing uh a situation where there were there were some people that were angry and they would throw stuff at the police. Uh but that also the police would were firing kind of sporadically uh in rubber bullets into the crowd and a kid in front of me. Uh he was n 18 or 19 uh YouTuber with a camera gets hit in the head and he falls hard cuz he he got hit here which is a weak part of the skull. And uh um it looked like he was seriously injured and I thought okay this is my job like I have to document this. I have to if people rush to help him. I am um photo taking photos as much as in a dignified way. Uh I'm trying to capture that scene because I don't know what's going to happen to this kid. As the volunteers picked him up and were taking him away, um I got hit. I was lucky. Um I got hit right here uh with a have been your eye. Yeah. a a colleague um who I need to check on because she hasn't been doing very well uh recently um a colleague Linda Torado um in the same area not at the exact same time but in the same area uh did lose her eye um because she did she got hit directly in the eye lucky cuz it hit here and then bounced in um and like you know it's not like you see yourself getting hit like for me like I'm standing and then the next moment I'm not and everything is in black. Um and uh I sort of like sort of slowly come to that was a difficult moment. Um there's a whole story about it but that is what led to um that of course leads to a whole legal case.
16:40 Bridging Race and Peace
Serhiy experiences like that they shape your standpoints on certain things, right? Or even they cement things that you thought about. And uh first of all, I'm glad that it didn't it didn't didn't go any other way. And I think um didn't end up, you know, something more hurtful. But that's for us Ukrainians. uh we we're still trying to understand the whole dynamics with racial discrim race dynamics in the US right and it's really uneasy and I think uh it's a great learning um point for all of us to understand that America does have huge challenges in this respect right and uh hopefully sooner rather than later um peace will be achieved to and I don't know some in some shape or form and things incidents like that will not happen among I'm not sure if peace is the right word but you know no peace is not a is a good word to use um you know I think you want peace and security uh both you know in those neighborhoods um in the cities at all like all our communities uh both in a place where people don't have to be afraid of either of violence from criminals or violence from um from police or I would say violence like from each other or from uh police cuz anyone know I hesitate to use the word criminal there but that's that's something to aspire to um though it seems like uh you know there's not the conversation around that has uh uh isn't happening right now um because it's the political situation has changed.
Jared I understand.
18:04 Coming to Ukraine
Serhiy Okay, let's shift gears to uh when did you first come to Ukraine? And what uh kind of prompted this?
Jared So when the full scale happens, I was like, you know, was I was covering crime in Minnesota. You can't really write about Ukraine a lot when that's your job. Um uh I was covering local news, but I like I the Maidan had left the mark on me. Um I I remember it being like, "Oh, I haven't been doing anything in regards to your credit." I felt kind of bad about that. And then the full skill starts. Um and I was trying to find a way to engage. I I did write some articles that were local to Minnesota. Uh there's a really cool uh organization called Proz, which founded by a Ukrainian surgeon that uh helps uh give prosthetics to Ukrainian soldiers in Minnesota. What about that? But I wanted to do more. And I eventually was was and I was also because of what had happened to me while I was a journalist was very interested in journalism solidarity trying to support journalists. Um and just looking around I found this project called Words and Bullets Slova Eoli and um it was interviews with journalists who either became volunteers or soldiers u journalists, writers, poets and I really identified with them because they weren't like touch tough macho men. They were uh they were like office work rookers like me and like their lives got completely turned around and um you know they they wrote in a in a in a funny way or they spoke in a in a in with with referencing history and culture and things that I related to. Um and these were beautifully done uh interviews. It's a there's a book about it and now in Ukrainian which I would recommend Words and Bullets. Um uh and um I uh but in the English translations, the first ones I could see little mistakes. Okay. So all that happened is I was like, "Hey, these are beautiful. These are so well done. I think it's important that people read this. Can I help?" Um and they said, "Yes, Chtomo was the publication." And um that just starts a process. You know, you go uh they send me some work, they like what I do, they send more. Um, and then over the course of a year, I ended up having like two jobs, like my real job, like which was in the local news, and then my, uh, volunteer Ukraine job, uh, which was editing translations. And eventually, they got a grant and, uh, could offer me more of a position. And so I left my, uh, regular job and I was like, you know what, I kind of I I'm really because every time I would edit, I would discover more about Ukrainian culture or history or literature. And it was fascinating for me. Yeah. Um it was like a whole new topic, a whole new world that I and I love that feeling. I love that feeling of knowing nothing about something and like getting the chance to sort of dive in. And of course, you know, it's under these dire circumstances, but that also made like the the essays that I was reading that much more important. Um so when the opportunity came, um I um I took it.
Serhiy Well, you said something that I really really admire in people. um some when you are at a place where you admire and you're fascinated by something that you do and you want to um just find find out more about it. I mean that speaks to me a lot and I I'm like that too. That's why partly I'm doing interviews because I want to know about the experiences and life path of other people. And that's as we were talking beforehand before we started recording. I asked you if you can say that journalism uh is one of the loves of your life and you said totally you know I I also asked if Jared would do what he's doing for free. He said absolutely. Yeah. I mean I have at times uh like it's part of who I am um identity and um when I say like it's basically telling stories uh like holding conversations and trying to communicate those stories to other people is like at the core of uh of who I am and the way I go about um life.
22:20 Hosting QA Sessions
Serhiy After Chtomo, you you got involved in a few interesting initiatives. So, I know that you run uh speaking club. You help Ukrainians learn English. You also host a Q session Q sessions with different speakers. Uh, and you had uh in cooperation with Green Forest, you had Ron Gallo recently, the author of the song If Only Zilinski had a nice nice suit. Yeah. And you also had an engineer from uh from or project manager from Apple. So, you're doing some amazing stuff. Um tell me tell us more about this initiative.
Jared Okay. Um well when I came with a small media outlet uh I knew that if I was coming with them I probably should have another job too. And um I hosting English clubs was part of that. I'd never done it before but I found I really liked it. Um, I really liked it because it's like it's very related to journalism. You have these people that come and you want to talk and you have to get them talking. So, you have to ask, you know, I'm curious about what their lives are like and I have to find a way to host this conversation. I got a lot out of it and I could also see that it meant a lot to them because the, you know, the Ukrainians that are in these groups, uh, English is for them a way of like seeing a better future for themselves. That's very nicely put. Um, and like that's a tool. And so, you know, uh, and there's been times in Ukraine where things have seemed pretty bleak or where it's been harder for people to see a future for themselves and coming to these groups was like a way of re restoring that faith in a future. And I was glad to, you know, be a part of that. And then when the the Q&A sessions cuz okay, I like doing this. What can I do to make it funner? What can I do to and I was like, well, like a lot of them work in tech. Okay. Uh I I know someone who who who uh knows uh someone who from Apple who can uh well actually to connect it my ex-wife works at Apple uh and uh like I said we have a great co-arenting relationship and uh I'm like hey you know do you know anyone who would do this and she's like yes and so she introduced me to Evan and uh um he um you know that was really because then it's like he can talk about his life experience he can talk about how what happened with George Floyd shaped um his perspective in terms of the activism that he does. You can also talk about what it's like to work at Apple and I think that was really valuable for the people that came and also it's as far as language I want people to forget they're speaking English because they're so interested in what is in front of them. I want them to forget the fact that it's English. Yeah. Uh and that uh that's one way of doing that.
25:23 Challenges for Ukrainian Media
Serhiy So tell tell us about the Ukrainian media and how you were cooperating with Ukrainian media and and what are the challenges that you see uh for Ukrainian media as it pertains to highlighting events uh for the global state.
Jared Yeah. Um well I went from Chtomo which is literature faced uh focus to working for uh the Ukrainians media in which they have a magazine called reporters which is like literary journalism is beautifully told stories. It's like an honor for me to be able to help with those translations uh or edit those translations. So, as but as I've been working in like um you know these areas, I think it's a a challenge is always thinking of um understanding like where your audience is coming from. Um and a story that's told for a Ukrainian audience is going to assume uh that people know already know a certain set of things for you. Yeah. the context is like a Ukrainian doesn't need to have the context explained to them whereas like someone in the US often times does. Uh so you have to think really carefully about what stories can be translated and what stories require additional uh information and context for an audience references that Americans understand historically right. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I think um, you had this we had the same thing in the US like telling a story for a Minnesota audience is different for telling a story for an international for because you know I was lucky as a reporter that I had the experience of telling really local stories for people in a community than telling stories for like a city and then telling stories for a for national news then telling stories internationally. like it went through all those different layers and every time you have to think okay what does my audience know and how can I lead them in and um uh yeah it's the the same dynamic that I encountered in the US I encounter here in a different way.
Serhiy you were talking about you gave a great guys if you haven't checked uh Jared's uh interview to media maker um awesome awesome stuff you're talking about false perception and that's what you're just pretty much reiterating right that perception is a bit different.
27:50 The Culture of Innovation in Ukraine
Serhiy I want to talk about um another thing that I I I I read from this interview that you believe that Ukrainians are supremely open-minded to new new things, right? Can you tell us about how are we different? Because this is something I believe made America a number one country in the world. the innovation, the the culture of innovation. America is a powerhouse, you know, creating all this stuff that move the needle, right? And if I could assume that you see the same the same mentality here in Ukrainians, that would be an amazing amazing compliment.
Jared Uh I yeah, I would say even more so. Um now I mean I I what I have found is that some of it's uh culture some of it's accentuated because of the the the current context of the war but where people are extremely like practical like in the sense of like okay we have to get something done how are we going to do it what are the best tools what are the best people you can help okay come on let's go and like there's like there's no hesitation there's no like there's like a a focus on what has to get done and what are the best tools and what are the best people and let's go and yeah I just find it to be very unpretentious and I find it to be very like uh sometimes it can be exciting uh even though the context is is difficult um I um that that sense of community that sense of drive and that willingness to like try to find new ways to solve problems is something that I feel uh like every day here um and it's great it's it's an environment I I enjoy being in.
Serhiy I I love I come from entrepreneurial uh kind of world and the the fact about us is that we are not limited to Ukraine. It's something that I really really admire about Ukrainians is that we don't particularly want to do things locally like the global stage does not uh does not scare us, right? And um but the language is really really important here in being able to understand cultural differences, right? to do business uh and to do business with Americans. I'm trying to do business with I'm doing business with Americans for like more than 15 years and I'm still far far from you know being totally airtight when it comes to this uh delicate thing when you're just trying to negotiate for example right.
30:38 Comparing Ukrainians and Americans
Serhiy How about the differences between Americans and Ukrainians as people can you can you yeah map out those?
Jared Uh I don't know if I'm qualified uh to do that. Um you've noticed so far um I think while Ukians are very uh innovative and quick to move um there's like a a certain code of respect where Americans can be very casual and sort of skip that. Oh yeah. Like um you know Ukrainians like like you have to signal to the you have to signal you have to go through like certain um etiquette. Uh and it could be different for each person but that that's that that moment of being like hi how are you like you know checking in uh is important here. Uh so etiquette I would say is is is is strong here. Um I would say different different context not always but sometimes things can be a little bit more hierarchical here that that can differ from from place to place. Yeah.
Serhiy You find hospitable.
Jared Oh yes. Uh, so it's a trick I a trick I use is um if someone's really shy in a speaking club, uh, like I can tell they they want to talk but they're not, I will find a way to frame a question like I'm asking for help like I need to know this about Ukraine. What could you recommend in terms of I don't know movies or something. And if like that person is reluctant to talk about themselves, if I frame it where like can you help me foreigner, they'll like they'll get over their fear and talk because that desire to help the other is so strong that they'll uh they'll get over their the shyness. So it's a it's a trick I use.
Serhiy You think this this is something embedded in our DNA?
Jared Well, it's definitely a strong I would say it's much stronger in Ukrainians than it is in Americans. willingness and eagerness to to to help, right? Yeah. To help the to help the guest. Yeah. Um, you know, I'm not saying that all Americans are not hospitable, but I just think it's like a it's a core u value here um in a way that I have not encountered in other spaces.
32:32 Jared's Vision for Ukraine's Future
Serhiy Sasha asked me to ask you this question. Our videographer Sasha, he asked me and I don't know if if it's going to fall under the political umbrella or not. But he asked me uh how do you see the foreseeable future for our country all things considered?
Jared What I can say is that I believe in Ukraine. Okay. Um and that's not that's not a comment about the government, not a comment about individual leader. It's a comment about like you know the Ukrainian people. Like I believe that this is a uh this is a place that will not give up, that will uh try to do everything within its power to maintain its uh dignity, maintain its sovereignty, maintain um its uh cohesion as a and um unity is a strong word because it's always but it's maintain its identity. Um, I worry about the the changing nature of my own country, uh, and its relationship to Ukraine. Um, but I don't think, um, I don't think Ukraine needs America as much as maybe we thought. Um, there is a way through for Ukraine. Um, because there's been harder times than now.
Serhiy Well, I hope the the worst part is behind us. I hope. Me, too. Uh, I think there's reason to hope um to hope that um Yeah. But the fact that you're with us we're we're experiencing shelling almost every single night here and Jared as as well as a lot of other journalists and a lot of foreigners are here. So that's something that I want to tell you big big thank you for on behalf of the my entire nation.
Jared and Ukraine has given me so much like I you know I I and I'm here um I I get the chance to contribute to something. Um and I've been welcomed into that and I I try to find the best way that I can uh uh to to contribute what I can. Um, so I don't feel as if I understand that the thanks. It's is sincere, but I'm like, hey, I just live here and I'm trying to do the best I can like everyone else.
35:20 New Project with Latin America
Serhiy if you want to some some last word for our audience. I hope our joint audience because Jared has audience I have audience uh some words of uh wisdom or maybe well you know I you know in terms of like what's going on in your life I heard you had some new you have a new uh job well you know actually okay I have two thoughts two close first one is what you're talking about.
Jared so uh you know there was a period of my life uh where I lived in Brazil for a few years and and I got it I learned Portuguese pretty Um, and there's a there's UATV, which is like a government funded channel that's it's it's a news channel. It's I would describe it as like a well, I don't need to make comparisons, but it's like a it's a news channel with government funding trying to tell Ukraine's story. And they there's a realization that Ukraine needs to do uh outreach towards Latin America. There's not a lot of Portuguese speaking journalists wandering around Kev. And so I I I've been given the chance at least to have a few pilot episodes of a news show in Portuguese, uh, which we're going to film our first episode on Wednesday. And like what a I never imagined in my life as like a suburban kid growing up in Philadelphia that I'd be hosting a news show in Portuguese in Kev, uh, directed towards Brazil. Uh, I'm going to be interviewing Brazilians while in Kev. Um and to me it's like you know the way I have people have different ways of living their life and living their careers.
36:40 How Not Having a Plan is a Plan
Jared Uh but I you know I end up in this spot not because I had a plan like I just I try to I I I follow one step and then try to take that the next step based on what I see in front of me and I I've lived my life like that. Some people can't. Some people they need to have their six-year plan. But living in this way has led me to this fantastically unique opportunity. And I think it's also because I'm here because um like I said, Ukrainian uh work culture uh is very much of like how can we solve this? Can you help? Great. Let's go. I'm really excited to have the opportunity to work on this project.
Serhiy Yeah, man. That that's the philosophy that I'm actually implementing in my life. also took me to a really good place. It's like where you take small steps. You don't I know that yeah guys setting goals are you know sort of good for us but sometimes especially if you're lazy person or you know not this systematic just thinking about this one step could could be less worrying. It could be less tense. and you do the step and then when you're there you decide you improvise on the fly and uh if you have this connection uh between your brain and your heart you listen to your intuition it will always take you somewhere so I believe in this wholeheartedly that uh there's a bigger plan and you for all of us.
38:00 Finding a Calling
Jared and you use the word calling and I think it's a beautiful word that signifies that every single person can find something that that they tr they were going to truly enjoy. Yeah. And not feel like it's work. And and that's part of what inspires me about Ukraine. I mean like I think people talk about Ukrainian understandably the focus on like the larger issue of Ukrainian resistance to uh Russian aggression and but what I also find inspiring is the individual stories of people despite their circumstances despite what they might have lost despite the uncertainty of the future finding their own callings here. Yeah. Um and that that like it's like all these individual stories whether it's an entrepreneur or an artist uh or student um that um you know they they are finding their path forward they're finding their calling and they're doing it um despite the contextes and you run that those are the kind of conversations you can have here and um it's part of the reason I love being here.
Serhiy Great great stuff. Thank you so much.
Jared Thank you.
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