Jerry Rice: Simon Sinek's WHY, Authentic Leadership, and Why Leaders Must Treat People as Human Beings | Be Yourself Podcast

Jerry Rice

Founder & Chief Communication Consultant at TUX Communications — on Simon Sinek's WHY, authentic leadership, optimism vs. toxic positivity, and why treating employees as human beings is the only way to build real trust

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35 minutes
Leadership · Purpose · Employee Engagement · Authenticity

About the Guest

Jerry Rice — Founder & Chief Communication Consultant, TUX Communications

Founder and Chief Communication Consultant at TUX Communications, a firm focused on employee engagement and leadership communication — with 20+ years across nonprofits, education, hunger relief, pharma, biotech and healthcare, mostly advising CEOs and senior leaders

His belief is simple: employees work better when they feel taken care of and connected to something bigger — a conviction he traces to his years at Feeding America and watching his father transformed by understanding what his work meant

Who He Is
founder and Chief Communication Consultant at TUX Communications, with 20+ years in communications advising CEOs on employee engagement and internal communication
How It Started
he began in nonprofits — including Feeding America during the 2008–09 crisis — where he saw that working toward a purpose unlocks a different level of engagement
The Eli Lilly Story
at Eli Lilly's animal health business he used Sinek's WHY framework to connect thousands of employees to their purpose — including a portrait project where people wrote their WHY on their bodies
The Core Principle
you don't need an amazing nonprofit to give people purpose — telling workers what they're building toward changes how they work; it just has to be true

Key Quotes

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People don't need to see a perfect leader. They need to see a human being who owns mistakes and then shifts and course corrects. And that's where trust builds.

Jerry Rice
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When you look at people as capital or numbers rather than people to lead and inspire and rally around your vision and your purpose or even just your project — you lose the whole game.

Jerry Rice
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My why really is around unlocking people's potential through helping connect them to something bigger.

Jerry Rice

Episode Chapters

0:00 Intro 1:12 Are You an Unshakable Optimist? 3:15 Discovering Jerry's Passion 5:35 Start of Employee Engagement Work 7:40 Is Purpose a Myth? 10:30 Navigating Old-School Mindset 12:57 How to Become a Better Leader 15:50 Transparency with Employees 17:51 How to Take Care of Employees 20:07 Transparency is NOT Democracy 21:49 Lessons Jerry Learned 24:12 Inspirational Deeds 26:56 Jerry's WHY 29:32 Vulnerability Talks 32:54 How to FIND your Path

Full Transcript

BTW: This episode of the Be Yourself Podcast is produced by Beverly Media. Want a podcast that looks and sounds this good? Check out Beverly Production →
0:00 Intro
Jerry I remember Simon once said that there's a great distinction between optimism and blind positivity.
Jerry When you look at people as capital or numbers rather than people to lead and inspire and rally around your vision and your purpose or even just your project. People don't need to see a perfect leader. They need to see a human being who owns mistakes and then shifts and course corrects. And that's where trust builds.
Serhiy It's not always easy uh to to present myself to them the way I am in real life because it might look unprofessional.
Serhiy Hey everyone, welcome to the Be Yourself podcast, the podcast on expressing our true selves. Today my guest is Jerry Rice. He's a founder, chief communication consultants at TUX Communications. He deals with employee engagement, works a lot with business leaders. So Jerry, thanks a lot for joining the show.
Jerry Yeah, really really happy to be here, Sergey. Uh love, love the podcast concept and and love your work.
Serhiy Great. I think we will talk a lot about authenticity today.
1:12 Are You an Unshakable Optimist?
Serhiy But before we dive into authenticity and how it helps being great leaders, I want to ask you, are you also as Simon Synynic an unshakable optimist?
Jerry Uh, I think that's the first word in my LinkedIn profile. Uh, it's not professional. It says optimist first. Uh, so absolutely. Yeah, I'm a big fan of Simon Synynic and his work. His optimism podcast I listen to. I just saw the latest episode popped up overnight, so I got to check that one out, too. Uh, but absolutely. Yeah, I think um I think there's so much to be optimistic about in the world. Um, you can definitely go down a path that's the opposite of that, but I don't think that's very useful. So, uh, I love to see, you know, love to pay attention to, uh, what's what what the future holds and, uh, and where optimism is. And there are a lot of, uh, parts of the world where that's challenging right now. But if you really dig down and look, there are so many great things, uh, you know, heading into 2026. And, uh, yeah, it's hard to shake that optimism for me.
Serhiy I remember Simon once said that there's a great distinction between optimism and blind positivity. You know, like sometimes people say we're like we're in the mud within the [ __ ] hole, but everything is beautiful. Let's just sit here. No, optimism is actually recognizing that you're in the [ __ ] hole, but if you do something right, you'll definitely get get out of this [ __ ] hole to some to a better place.
Jerry That's exactly it. Yeah, it's about finding the right ways to push forward. Um, you know, you look at things like the political climate in some countries and you're not you're not loving it, right? But what are you going to do about it? You're not just going to say, "Oh, everything's great. I'm going to wait for it to pass." You're going to find ways to fight for what you believe in and and kind of figure it out and uh and yeah, kind of turn that around. So, uh I agree with him 100%. You um you can't just sit and watch what's what's going on around you blindly. You uh your optimism should be kind of pointed toward a vision for a better future for everybody.
3:15 Discovering Jerry's Passion
Serhiy I think that optimism is born when you are really passionate about something. Do you think it's a fair statement?
Jerry I do. I do. Um, you know, for for me, uh, I I started my my professional career working in nonprofits and that really ingrained in me this idea of working toward a purpose. So, I worked in education. I worked for a science education museum. I worked for uh an organization called Feeding America where we helped feed people who were struggling especially uh when I joined it was during the uh kind of financial crash uh post 2008 2009 in the US where lots of people needed food assistance and that just ingrained in me this idea that working toward a purpose makes you more passionate about what you do and it it just unlocks a different level of work. Um, I took that into the corporate world and I still love to see people find the why uh behind um, you know, what they're what they're doing in their work. And I I just think that creates a a better atmosphere. Um, it also creates a stronger business. So, you're more successful as a nonprofit or you're more profitable as a business when your employees deeply care about what you do and they understand why and how their work connects to the bigger picture.
Serhiy And you're saying that in these early experience feeding the homeless or whoever you felt this connection with this big purpose.
Jerry Yeah. You feel a you feel a connection to what you're doing. Um you know I've worked in communications for more than 20 years but that type that work has changed depending on what type of organization. So it was focused on fundraising um bringing awareness to um you know the need for food assistance for middle class families in 2010 2011 when they were generally considered pretty safe. They were finding themselves at food pantries, food banks as they lost jobs during the great recession. Um so connecting yourself to a bigger purpose. Um, you know, lately I've been working in pharmaceutical industry, biotech, healthcare, uh, an environmental company right now. And, um, there's something to connect your work to every day to see that you're advancing something that's meaningful. And I like to do that for the rest of the workforce as well, not just myself.
5:35 Start of Employee Engagement Work
Serhiy And that's actually what you decided to devote your life to, uh, working with employees and engaging them more.
Jerry Yeah. Yeah. That didn't click for me until I had been in the workforce for maybe 10 12 years. Um, you know, I I I knew I had this connection to purpose. But when I went to work for Eli Liy uh around 2014, I worked for their animal health business and I kind of like it it hit me like a lightning bolt. Like I saw the connection between employees purpose and their work. And I saw that I kind of like thought back to my dad and his work. He worked a very hard job. He was a welder uh machinist and he worked these like really tough, dirty jobs his whole life. And they were um honestly kind of miserable jobs because they didn't do a good job of connecting him to something bigger. But he went to work for Argon National Laboratory. That's part of the Department of Energy in the US. And they did a really good job of helping him understand how his work connected to a bigger purpose, a bigger picture. So all these, you know, potential future new energy sources, renewable energy, things like that. He's still doing the same dirty job. He was welding magnets for a big particle accelerator. But he understood what that meant in terms of what scientists from around the world were going to be able to do in terms of new discoveries around energy and uh more efficient uh ways to to use energy and and that just like changed the way he looked at work. So he he just became much more interested. He talked to us about it all the time. He actually wanted to take us there and show us and you know what he was doing. Um, and I just I I love that idea of, you know, taking someone's perspective about work. It's just a job, and turning it around into something that they're really interested in, passionate about, and maybe it can even, you know, help themselves kind of advance their career, which which he was able to do there.
7:40 Is Purpose a Myth?
Serhiy I had someone on my show who says that doing something that you're passionate about is a myth. like there's always something he believes that you totally hate about your job, but you need to do it, right? Like what's your opinion on that? Aren't we romanticizing work uh when we try to sell vision, purpose of or stuff like that like that?
Jerry Yeah, I there's a point there, but I kind of I I think I reject the idea that that you know, kind of selling purpose and passion doesn't matter. When you're passionate and purposeful about your work, those things that you have to do that you don't love, and there there are plenty of those for me in my, you know, kind of job and my role, um they they they're worth doing, right? So, you push through and for me it's like the political piece of working within a company. You're working for budget. you're, you know, kind of competing for other people to get your ideas funded and and kind of bring those to life. I don't love that part of the job. I love executing and doing creative things. Um, that piece of it, uh, not my favorite, but it is worth it when you're leading a team, when you're trying to help others be purposeful and passionate about their work and you need budget for a tool that's going to help you do that or a campaign that's going to help you do that. um it becomes worth the effort and you can get past that and uh and do a better job with it even if you don't love it.
Serhiy And I think Simon once said that even when you do presentation and for and you request a budget you can tie it in tie it with your bigger picture which makes it which actually translates business talk into human language.
Jerry Exactly. basic human language that we all understand. That's another great point. Yeah. Yeah. Like when you when you love what you do, you can talk about it in a way that people understand. Yeah. You don't have to make difficult concepts sound really simple. Isn't that what it's all about? Your ideas will go viral where where when they're really simple, right, Jerry? Absolutely. Yeah. You ditch the the jargon, right? like you don't need the $30 words, the $10 words. You just, you know, basic basic language that helps connect people to your bigger picture vision and strategy and purpose. And you know, you can just talk like a human being. You don't have to talk like a business robot. Unless you're in an investor call, then maybe you need to talk like a financial business robot. But when you're talking to your people, uh that's not necessary.
10:30 Navigating Old-School Mindset
Serhiy What are some recent cases or maybe uh examples where you had to work with let's call them tough business people, tough managers. Uh maybe something that you can tell us where you had to kind of overcome whatever difficulty but it was worth it.
Jerry Yeah, I think um where I where I typically butt heads with people um is when they have an older school mindset. And that that doesn't mean that they're older, you know, older generation. That that can that can come straight out of business school with uh with, you know, someone someone younger with their MBA. Um they're coming in, they want to be lean and mean, and it's all about the numbers. and you forget about the people, you know, you you look at people as what do they teach in these big business schools? After all, there are courses that teach what we're talking about, the authenticity and leadership piece, but some people go the the financial track and they they ignore some of that stuff. Maybe that's ditch day or something like that and they they're more focused on the finance piece. But when you when you look at people as capital, right, or numbers, um rather than uh you know, people to lead and inspire and rally around your your vision and your purpose or even just your project, um you know, I had a great great conversation with this gentleman named John Hoffman a few weeks ago and we were talking about um you know, just um production projects. He he works in the production field and he was talking about how how few leaders come through on a movie project or an event and just tell the workers like here's what you're producing this for like here's what you're do here's why you're carrying this or here's why you're setting up a craft station you know of food for actors like this is what we're all working towards so few people in that industry he said think to do that he comes in and does that and looks like a rock star so um you know th those things like you can't I can't uh stress enough how important it is to connect people to it doesn't have to be some amazing nonprofit purpose. It can just be what is the project going to look like at the end of the day. And that that was, you know, back to the story of my dad, like once he understood why he was working 60-hour weeks welding magnets in a 100, you know, degree uh room uh you know, for hours on end, uh he he he felt better about it when he came home exhausted. Um and he still had energy left at the end of the day. Meaningful meaningful work.
12:57 How to Become a Better Leader
Serhiy You mentioned authentic leadership. I think I really like this uh word conjunction, authentic leadership. And I also once one of my my guests told that the real leadership is he used the word inspirational inspirational leadership. How can we become better leaders, Jerry?
Jerry Yeah, I think I think you you hit the nail on the head with the word authentic. Authenticity. So some people think that an inspiring leader has to look like a movie speech, right? like you come in and everybody's cheering at the end and it's amazing. But really, it's more about, you know, authenticity, helping link people to something bigger than themselves and even bigger than you and being consistent in updating them on how you're doing, right? Whether it's good or bad and that's where the authenticity piece comes in, right? You're not rahrh when things are not great. Like you're an optimist, but you're pointing out the things that need to change. So, you know, goes back to that very start of our conversation. Um, you don't have to be perfect, right? You're going to make mistakes and you need to own those mistakes.
Jerry People don't need to see a perfect leader. They need to see a human being who owns mistakes and then shifts and course corrects. And that's where trust builds. So, that authenticity piece is just so important. But it's lost on a lot of people who just come in with a speech and think that, you know, that's what's going to rally the troops. they just need that 5 minutes in front of everybody and they're just going to love it. And that's that's not really true. It's more about consistency and authenticity and simplifying things.
Serhiy I mean we we can talk we can talk for hours about this topic. I mean uh it's it speaks to me because I I really want to build my team because I I I have production team. We produce videos, run YouTubetubes, YouTube for people. And you know, uh it's not always easy uh to to present myself to them the way I am in real life because it might it might look unprofessional because a lot of times I'm like I'm playful. I'm making fun of my myself, you know, openly. And uh I don't know, maybe sometimes uh they they expect me to know all the answers, you know, to and and I say, "Hey guys, right now we're in a bit of a crisis in a in a bit of a slump. We're looking for more customers right now." And I say, "Hey, I I'm doing my best like uh s like uh work with me. Just be with me and you'll be you will be uh rewarded, you know. So, I'm taking this transparent approach uh even when the [ __ ] hits them.
15:50 Transparency with Employees
Jerry That's a great and that's and that's a fantastic approach to make sure everyone understands where you are and what the priorities are, right? So, if you're all if you're all trying to get new business and it's not just on your shoulders and the team understands that, hey guys, I need you right now. Um I need your ideas. I need you know what what can we do? And I've been with large organizations who've had amazing years, like just record years, 30% growth, and then a couple years later, right, were struggling because the market shifted. It had nothing to do with the employees or the leadership. It was just everyone's investing. All those like investment dollars just went somewhere else and suddenly companies still need to pay money and there might be some there might be some layoffs because of that, right?
Jerry Yeah. Yeah. There there is there is that um there's definitely you know sometimes a need for layoffs and you have to be really really open and honest with uh not only the people and respectful not only with the people that you're you know letting go for your company as you thank them for their hard work and and uh and wish them well but with the people who are still there about you know what that means for the company. shoring up finances for the the mission and the company to survive and for the people who are still there to, you know, continue to get paid and and and do do good work. Um I think what's happening in in the US is a little bit of um like this annual cycle of we're just going to lay off a percentage of the workforce to keep profitability. Um so you're seeing a little bit of that kind of drive layoffs in the US as well. Um, but there are real, you know, business reasons, uh, you know, sometimes where you do have to reduce your workforce and, uh, there are things that you need to do for for the staff that remain to make sure that they're continue to be engaged and and less fearful about their own futures.
17:51 How to Take Care of Employees
Serhiy I saw your profile on subs and checked a few videos. You said an interesting thing that employees work better when they feel taken care of. Yes. So, I think I want to ask the question, how to better take care of your employees, but I'm going to ask you, how do we make as leaders, how do we make them feel like they're taken care of?
Jerry Yeah, there there are a few things you can do. It depends on kind of where you are in the organization. you know, if you're a if you're a senior leader, right, and you're making the financial decisions, you know, how are you dedicating budget to developing people so that they can advance their careers and better themselves? Um, you know, how are you, you know, dedicating budget to benefits and and things for the employees themselves? Um, and then as you get further down into more of a frontline manager position, are you asking your people if they're okay? Like, are you asking your people what they need? Because you have a lot of workers that I've had tough conversations with managers where, you know, I'm trying to help a senior leader get their message out, right? They want to talk about, oh, the stuff that we're doing in the community and stuff that's great, right? You'd want everybody to know, but at the end of the day, the manager is telling me that the my people are coming in and they're just trying to get their job done and clock out on time so they can pick their kids up from daycare. So, what do I tell them when we want to, you know, have them sit down and watch a video or something like that? And so you you have to be, you know, realistic. Um, give them the resources that they need, I think, is a big one because I think a lot of people are feeling the crunch right now as they see some of their co-workers get laid off. Like making sure that you're prioritizing uh what is really important. So people don't feel like I've got to cram 100 hours of work into 50. Um, you know, there are probably things that you can just make go away, right? Uh if your workforce has been reduced. So there are a lot of ways to make people cared for, but it is so important at every single level to make sure that you're all on the same page and building a culture that does care for its people. Communication goes a long way and transparency.
20:07 Transparency is NOT Democracy
Serhiy I remember HubSpot's culture code. One of the points was transparency doesn't equal democracy.
Jerry Yes. Do you do you do you do you agree? I do. Yeah. I I think um you know you you get paid the big dollars as a leader or you know you're you're you're profiting as a leader by making decisions like that's on your shoulders. Um you should be talking to the experts that you've hired uh and and again like I had mentioned to you making people feel needed. Well they are needed right? You're you're a CEO you're not a marketing expert. You're not a sales expert. You're not a manufacturing expert. You have people who have that expertise who can help you make and get to the right decisions. But yeah, it's not it's not a democracy. It's you're getting paid to make those decisions and those decisions rest on your shoulders.
Serhiy Yeah. And I think I think Bezos Bezos told that executives are getting paid to make a small number of important decisions. That's that's the only job to make important decisions.
Jerry Yeah, they're they're really important decisions. You know, I I've worked with the seauite over my 20 years. U I've probably spent the majority of them working with, you know, people at the CEO or the the dean level of universities. And those small decisions really do shape the entire direction of the company. Which product are we going to invest in? Are we going to build a new manufacturing site? Like we have a lot of demand. Should we allow that to sit as a backlog? Are we going to build new facilities and spend capital? Those decisions make or break a company?
21:49 Lessons Jerry Learned
Serhiy Speaking of the lessons that you learned along the way, would you mind sharing a few?
Jerry Yeah. Um, number one, uh, own own your mistakes. So, early in my career, I did not have a lot of exposure in my personal life. um after college or before college to like an office environment. And I thought you've got to walk in and you've got to be perfect. And I think a lot of young people feel that way and some people never grow out of that. But as I went along um I had some really good managers and some really good conversations um about owning your mistakes and not not just owning them, but like bringing them to their attention proactively so that you can do something about it. And as long as you're learning something from that and you're going to change the way that you you do things going forward, um it's a positive for the organization. Like we all learn from mistakes and even surfacing those for the entire team. Like I got really comfortable if I made a mistake somewhere along the way just not just telling my boss but telling the entirety of the team so that they don't have to go through what I went through. They can learn from that and we all get better. And so so that's that's number one.
Jerry Number two, authenticity and transparency. Like we talked about earlier, I cannot overstate how important that is for senior leaders because I've seen the senior leaders who do that really well and then things in the company maybe start not going as well, but they're still trying to kind of bring everyone along as if nothing has changed. And that backfires every single time because people feel it no matter what part of the organization. Like you feel that the manufacturing floor is a little slower. You feel that the overtime has gotten a little slim. Like you feel like those orders aren't coming in. If you're sitting in sales, you feel more pressure when you're in marketing. And if your senior leader is still talking as if everything is really rosy, uh, and your entire organization is seeing all the little pieces adding up that it's not. um you lose a lot of credibility. So the the openness, the authenticity, the transparency, you got to level with people and tell them you know where you are.
24:12 Inspirational Deeds
Serhiy And speaking of inspirational deeds or inspirational actions, have you seen something that you really remember till now? examples of really cool things that leaders did to inspire others.
Jerry Yeah. Uh I worked for Eli Lily and I worked for their animal health business and within that um we had had a major acquisition. So we purchased Novartis' animal health business. we were competitors of the same size and we were bringing the two companies together and some of the things that leadership decided to do I to this day think um really made that a successful acquisition and a successful integration and it was it was about culture building um a lot of acquisitions the thought is how are we going to reduce headcount because we probably have two salespeople in this territory they didn't look at it that way um they looked at it as how are we going to build this culture, bring two two different cultures together and really rally around a purpose. And so they actually looked to Simon Synynic and a toolkit through um through his book um and helped people find their why. And it didn't have to be something connected to the company's why. It could actually just be your personal why. Um, so that could have been, you know, my personal why is to make sure that my kids can go to college and don't have to take out big student loans and I want to advance here at the company in order to financially be able to do that. And that just kind of set them up to think that way about like what is what is my own kind of personal purpose?
Jerry And then we brought in uh a photographer and an artist that um and I wish I could remember the the name of the the photographer, but um essentially you wrote down your why, like your why statement like on a part of your body, so your arm. Some people actually did it on their face, took these really cool black and white photos. So you had this like constant reminder of your why and and kind of putting that in writing and this entire ritual and then a really beautiful photograph at the end. And I just thought that was such a cool thing to invest money in. And we did that all over the world. It was a global company. So we did that at headquarters. We did that in Brazil. We did it in Switzerland. Um, so it it just everyone was sort of connected and I just thought that was a cool thing that had nothing to do with business or the company, but really putting, you know, something authentic out there for its people.
26:56 Jerry's WHY
Serhiy Why can be only one, right? And it it mostly has to do with our past. And he also speaks about just cause, I guess, right? So we have one why and one just cause. So uh you know your why, right, Jerry?
Jerry Absolutely. Yeah. My my why really is around unlocking people's potential through helping connect them to something bigger. And sometimes I'll say that a little differently, but essentially, you know, why are you doing what you're doing at work every day? Um you know, how can we unlock your potential, your creativity, your innovation? um you know your ability to do your job better by connecting you to the larger the bigger picture and whether that's purposeful or whether it's just project based people who know why they do what they do do it better because I I'm thinking about like why right now um inevitably I I I now have this thoughts talking to you maybe this is the magic that you that you do but people start thinking about it and you
Serhiy So I felt a few times that I captured my why, you know, and as I go through life, it seems like I have I I I uncover yet another deeper uh meaningful thing, you know. So I I I kind of struggle to articulate my why so easily like Simon does like he wants to inspire people to do what inspires them right super like mine I still I don't have the right words to to articulate it but I kind of understand maybe this is just where language does not catch up quite yet.
Jerry Yeah and I I think it could change. I mean my you know my why when I really first started thinking about it was you know it was all about feeding hungry people but it was about feeding hungry people in a literal sense in terms of practical yeah had worked for you know a hunger relief agency but as I like got more into the business world feeding hungry people kind of transformed into feeding hungry people in terms of feeding their kind of inner energy and inner hunger to understand more about the world and do better. And then that sort of transformed into what I just shared um about helping people unlock their potential uh by by connecting to something bigger. And so I think it can sort of you know transform and I think you'll you'll get to whatever that right statement is. Um but it feels like you've got something in here that you're tapping into that that makes you tick. So that's that's the starting point.
29:32 Vulnerability Talks
Serhiy Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of vulnerability, I think Simon also said that I think was it Bren Brown who popularized this concept of vulnerability. one of the most viewed dad talk and you know I always felt that vulnerability is just being a bit sensitive you know or whatever admitting your mistakes but I think what Simon said is that you can you can be confident in your vulnerability doesn't not present it as a weakness right so I I don't know if if authentic people are all showing off their vulner vulnerability because authenticity might be not you know talk more about your kids this is what you care about or something like that so it's it's also it's it's an interesting concept you know to look from different angles Jerry.
Jerry I I agree I think I think the best leaders are able to be more vulnerable and authentic um I can I can be vulnerable and say that I'm still working on that for me. Um, there are times where I feel like I can I can lay it all bare and there there are times where the ego gets in the way and you feel like you need to be a little more rigid and protective. um you know maybe you're not feeling as but I think that happens to everybody and you know every and I've worked with people at you know a four billion dollar company leading a four billion dollar company everyone would look to this person as so confident and so collected and you know so authentic and so vulnerable and always um you know never doubting themselves and and that's never the case it doesn't matter who you are you know you can be Bob Iger the CEO of Disney and and and you know that there are decisions that keep him up at night right now uh about the the fate of that company and and ESPN and the streaming model and and the future of media and entertainment. So, it's it's it's everywhere and vulnerability is something uh it's something that you're constantly working on because we're not wired that way. We're wired to protect ourselves first.
Serhiy Bob Bob Iger is uh is monumental uh figure. I think the things that he achieved, but he's made some I think controversial decisions as far as right as as far as recent uh something of this kind.
Jerry Yeah. Yeah. the decisions with ESPN, I think, are what are in the news right now. But I I'm not going to um try to pretend that I'm an expert on the media space and second guess what what he's trying to navigate right now. Um I think he's built Disney into something pretty special.
32:54 How to FIND your Path
Serhiy Uh and le as we're wrapping up one of the reasons uh why I started the show uh is the problem the overwhelming problem that young people have who don't know what they want to do in life and uh a lot of people say that your hobby cannot become your profession like hobby has to be like a separate thing and when I talk to artists like DJs or actors they say why not I I made my hobby a profession and I'm happy you know so I so what what's your advice to people who are still finding that's something that they want to do they want to get up in the morning just go do without money without food.
Jerry My advice would be try things um don't discount things that you think you won't be interested in or or won't like uh I had no idea what I wanted to do when I got out of college. Um, my goal, you know, coming from a working family where not very many people had graduated from college was just to go to college and get a bachelor's degree. And I stumbled into a job working at Northwestern University because the HR person um was very very kind to a person who had applied for a job who's that was way out of my league. So, um, thought that there was potential for me for a lower position, an entry-level position to come in, um, and and work. And once I was in that environment, I started to see really successful people and what they could do. Um, you know, I took advantage of their program, uh, that helped me pay for a graduate degree. So, I was able to get a master's degree from their school of communication and then kind of turned it into a communications uh, career.
Jerry Um but I had no idea you know so I just kind of you know looked for looked for opportunities and every every chance I got to you know progress in my career you know I kind of jumped at it and uh sometimes it was scary in nonprofit you don't get paid a lot but you um get a lot of responsibility at a young age and so I was working with very senior leaders in my you know mid mid to late 20s that um you know at sometimes absolutely terrified me. So, what I would say is just try things. Um, you know, like don't don't say no to opportunities. Um, but if there's something you're passionate about that is a hobby that you want to turn into more, you don't have to give that up either. Um, I mean, I have like three or four different irons in the fire almost at all times. And, uh, that's served me very well to be able to pursue the one that's most interesting.
Serhiy Cool. Cool. Thanks for this advice and for this amazing conversation, Jerry. Absolutely. You know, this has been great. Thanks for the invitation.