Neal Foard: 30 Years of Advertising on Storytelling, Persuasion & Human Connection | Be Yourself Podcast
Be Yourself Podcast

NealFoard

Creative Director & Advertising Storyteller with 30 Years of Experience — on Why Human Stories Build Brands, How Emotions Drive Every Business Decision, and Why Being Authentic Is More Powerful Than Being Polished

60 minutes
Storytelling · Persuasion · Advertising · Leadership Communication · Authenticity
Watch on YouTube StoryFire Course

Listen to this Episode

About This Episode

How 30 Years in Advertising Taught Neal Foard That Human Stories — Not Bullet Points — Are the Real Engine of Persuasion, Brand Trust, and Business Growth

What does it take to move people — not just inform them? Neal Foard spent 30 years as a creative director crafting stories for some of the world's biggest brands: Budweiser, Sony, Nokia, Toyota. In that time, he learned one thing above all else: facts persuade nobody. Stories do.

In this motivational episode of the Be Yourself Podcast, Neal unpacks why influence is never built on bullet points or features — but on emotional connection. We explore how storytelling strengthens leadership communication, why the campfire is still the default setting for human beings, and how authenticity creates more trust than any polished performance ever could.

From the wedding toast as a masterclass in selfless communication, to dogs as the ultimate model for persuasion, to the Ferrari as a study in irrational loyalty — Neal turns 30 years of real-world advertising insight into a conversation that is at once practical, warm, and impossible to forget. As a special gift to listeners, Neal shares a 30% discount code for his StoryFire storytelling course.

01
Why storytelling is still underestimated as a business skill
Human beings are wired for story — not logic. The campfire, not the PowerPoint, is the default setting for how we communicate, connect, and make decisions together.
02
Persuasion as a superpower — and how to use it ethically
Super strength, flight, or the ability to change minds — which would you choose? The better you get at framing ideas so people understand, agree, and want to join you, the more you can achieve.
03
Don't make yourself the hero — make the listener the hero
When you tell a story about someone you admire — your mentor, your influence, your inspiration — you reveal who you are without a single brag. That's infinitely more credible than self-promotion.
04
The wedding toast as the ultimate communication masterclass
A great wedding toast has one job: to enrich the day of the couple and then be forgotten. Your job is to make people feel something — not to be remembered for what you said.
05
Authenticity beats polish — why nervous speakers sometimes win
When someone senses a real human being on the other side of a conversation, trust goes up. Being too slick feels like a con. Nervousness can actually earn sympathy and open ears.
06
Advertising as a love letter to your customer's problems
The best advertising from Neal's career always had one thing at its center: a concern for the welfare of the customer. Acknowledge the struggle. That's what creates irrational loyalty — loyalty beyond reason.

About the Guest

Neal Foard — Creative Director, TEDx Speaker & Founder of StoryFire

Neal Foard is an advertising creative director with 30 years of experience creating stories for brands, universities, and governments. Over the course of his career he worked with clients including Budweiser, Sony, Nokia, and Toyota, and won countless awards as a creative director. He has spoken at TEDx and now creates content on storytelling and communication that reaches audiences worldwide.

Neal is the founder of StoryFire — a practical storytelling course that teaches leaders, executives, and communicators how to tell better, more human stories. His coaching work focuses on helping executives communicate with their organizations using the default setting that human beings have always used: story, not slide decks.

His content has a rare quality: after watching it, people feel smarter — not because Neal tells them new things, but because he gives voice to things they already sensed were true. As he puts it, most of us are not as different as we think. We just need someone to say it first.

What He Does
Advertising creative director and storytelling coach. 30 years creating campaigns for Budweiser, Sony, Nokia, Toyota. Now coaches executives on communication through story. Founder of StoryFire — a storytelling course for leaders and communicators.
Core Belief
The default setting for human communication is sitting around a campfire and exchanging stories — not presenting bullet points on a slide. Leaders who use story instead of data connect faster, build more trust, and move people to action.
StoryFire Course
Neal's storytelling course at storyfire.net. Teaches how to tell better, more human stories for business, leadership, and life. Listeners of this episode get 30% off with discount code INSPIRE30 (all caps).
On Storytelling & Leadership
Don't make yourself the hero. Share what inspires you, who influenced you, and what you believe — and people will know you without a single brag. That is the whole art: make the listener feel something real.

Key Quotes

"

human beings are deeply emotional creatures that seek warmth and companionship, a sense of belonging, that we draw our meaning from our relationships with other people.

Neal Foard
"

dogs love you first. They don't wait. They don't wait for your permission. They don't judge you.

Neal Foard
"

your authentic self, your genuine self, the things you really feel, you're being yourself and being you, is vastly more important than being slick and professional and polished.

Neal Foard

Episode Chapters

0:00 Episode Teaser & Intro 1:34 Why Stories are Underrated in Business 3:55 Persuasion Superpower 7:24 Dating Vs. Business Negotiations 8:52 Emotions in Decision Making 12:50 Storytelling is Emotional 14:43 Neal's Story on Leaders in his Life 18:51 Summary of a Story isn't a Story 20:35 Ferrari Vs. Toyota Corolla 21:57 Why We Deal with Dogs 24:03 Don't Make Yourself a Hero 26:55 A Wedding Toast Scenario 32:00 Why Neal's Content Feels so Disarming 36:15 Human Desire to Be Friends 38:35 Choosing Words Right 42:41 Poetry: Noticing the Magic 44:00 Authenticity Matters 49:24 Best Advertising Practices 53:30 Special Present from Neal

Full Transcript

BTW: This episode of the Be Yourself Podcast is produced by Beverly Media. Also on the show:
David Angel — Brutal Truth About Sales From a Recovered Addict →
0:00 Episode Teaser & Intro
Neal Your authentic self, your genuine self, the things you really feel, you're being yourself and being you is vastly more important than being slick and professional.
Sergey For some reason in business world, people still are obsessed about metrics more than they obsessed about human values.
Neal So, right away, I know you and I know a lot about you without you having to brag about how wonderful you are.
Sergey When we think about storytelling, why is that people still underestimate this as a skill?
Neal I think the first reason people underestimate story as a tool for business or for personal thriving is that...
Sergey Hey everyone, welcome to the Be Yourself podcast, the podcast on expressing our true selves. Today my guest is Neil Ford who spent 30 years of experience in advertising creating stories for brands, universities and governments. He worked with clients like Budweiser, Sony, Nokia, Toyota. He won countless awards as a creative director. He's also been a TED X speaker and now he creates content and he also an author of Storyfire, a pretty cool storytelling course where he teaches people how to tell better stories. Neil, welcome to the show.
Neal Hey, thank you Sergey. It's wonderful to be here.
1:34 Why Stories are Underrated in Business
Sergey Neil, when we think about storytelling, why is that that people still underestimate this as as as a skill necessary in our life?
Neal Well, I think the first reason people underestimate story as a as a tool for business or for personal thriving is that we get so accustomed to thinking that the human brain responds to facts or that we can persuade people with bullet points or logic. when in fact human beings are deeply emotional creatures that seek warmth and companionship, a sense of belonging, that we draw our meaning from our relationships with other people. And if you think back to the ancient times before we recorded anything on paper or lambkin, the the default setting for the way human beings would communicate with each other is sitting around a campfire and exchanging gossip. And uh how are we going to kill the bison tomorrow? And why is there a volcano? And why is there snow? Why are there locusts? Um and you all of these things were solved and people's fears were comforted by the fact that that when they would communicate with one another, they could bring meaning to all of this.
Neal You know, Sergey, I don't know if in your life you have the same problem I have, but there isn't a day in my life when I don't ask myself, "What is the purpose of all this?" Like, I just wish there was an owner's manual. Well, anyway, uh because storytelling is so such an ancient art form and it it helped us understand one another and it helped us belong to one another. People don't realize how baked into our being it is. The reason I call my course story fire is because of telling stories around the campfire. And what I have uh what I wind up doing with most of my professional time is coaching executives on how to communicate better with their organizations by using the default setting that human beings communicate best with as opposed to trying to persuade them with a PowerPoint presentation.
Sergey Well, this is a game changer. If if a business executive can just sharpen the way they deliver their message, right? and expand their business, achieve more sales or bigger revenue. This like a life hack. It It doesn't even seem real, Neil, but it is, right?
3:55 Persuasion Superpower
Neal Yeah. It's very much like a superpower. For example, Sergey, if I offered you three different kinds of superpowers, I say, "Okay, Sergey, I'm going to snap my fingers and you can have super strength. You can lift train cars like they're styrofoam." Or I say, "Here's a different one. I give you the power of flight." I snap my fingers. You can leap into the fly into the sky. Fly as fast as a jet at your whim. Or I give you the power of changing people's minds. Which of those would you choose? And you can get anything you want if you have the power to persuade other people. Now, it's not a superpower, but it is a power. And the better you get at framing things so that people understand and agree and they see your point and they want to join you.
Neal Or if you let's let's take you as an example, Sergey. I I get the sense from your demeanor, your outlook, the way that you present yourself, your attitude and everything that you are a marvelous teammate. that it would be very good to be Sergey's teammate because Sergey would be generous and understanding and easygoing and uh forgiving. Well, these sorts of things people don't realize. They they react to you subconsciously. You know, you know, in your own experience, people make up their minds about you very quickly.
Neal Well, I want you to imagine now, let's all do a a thought experiment. We're on a date. It's a blind date and we've been set up with somebody and uh you you meet this attractive stranger and immediately you're drawn to them. Well, you want to put your best foot forward, right? You want to make the best possible impression. The uh I used to do this with my nephews. I would give them the first 60 seconds of what they would say and I made them rehearse it over and over so that if you ever get the question, "So tell me about yourself or what do you do?" It's this really confident 30 second statement about what you do and why it means something to you, what you're hoping to achieve in your life, the kind of people you like and your influences and your inspirations. You know, just the fact that you're wearing a t-shirt that says inspire, it's telling a story.
Sergey Yes, sir. You've chosen that. Thank you for noticing that.
Neal Yeah. Oh, it doesn't go unnoticed by anybody. Even if they don't comment on it, they see it and they understand its meaning. If you if you're prepared as a CEO or a CFO or somebody on a date with an attractive stranger, if you're prepared with that first 30 seconds to share professionally and confidently who you are, it does a marvelous job at making someone form an impression about you as a confident, prepared, uh, you know, thoughtful person. And then you're good.
7:24 Dating Vs. Business Negotiations
Sergey It's interesting that you gave an example of a date because I'm really into Simon Synynic. He's been my he's been my sheer inspiration and it's my dream to interview him. I've been trying to do that the the best I've gotten is that their team gave me a free access to his presentation course, the art of presenting.
Neal Oh, wow.
Sergey In the first month of war. Yeah. So, I sent a request, can you give me a good discount? and they gave me like a course for free which was pretty cool. So yeah, I I studied the presentation skills u according to Simon and he draws this parallels between the date and the and negotiations, business negotiations like he says that for some reason we say what we have, we have this big office, we have this revenue, we have this number of new clients every year instead of saying what we believe. He says that it would be foolish on the date to say, "Hey, you know, I have a big house. I have a Lamborghini, right? It's really unimaginable you." But when you say that, you know, I believe in kindness and believe in generosity and things like that, they pull human beings in closer to us. So for some reason in business world people still are obsessed about metrics more than they obsessed about uh human values.
8:52 Emotions in Decision Making
Neal Yeah. They underestimate the power of our emotions on our decision-making. There's a there are very good reasons why human beings mammals make decisions emotionally. It it seems like a flaw. Although you know for example men I think men sort of look down their noses at women's emotionality. But they would also acknowledge that women are highly intuitive and that they often pick up signals that men don't get. Scotland Yard in the UK um did an experiment in the 1970s where they started to partner up women detectives with men and they found that those teams did much better at solving crimes than just men or just women because men and women notice different things at the same crime scene. And when they combine them, it gives them a superior uh perspective on what might have happened here.
Neal Also, and this is I find this just as interesting, if you uh if you take a male police detective and you partner him with a woman, he automatically becomes a better detective because he's trying to impress the woman. And so he notices more, he works harder, he tries more. And it improved the the men police detectives. They found this on American juries as well. If you racially integrate a jury, uh even the white um jurors try to do a better, more observant job because they don't want to be accused of by the black jurors of being uh racist. So they take very much more care. So, we really do respond to one another emotionally and this often drives our decisions and it's not a bad thing necessarily.
Neal you are a really you're in a particularly interesting example of this right now in 2025 and 2026. your country is under attack by by the soldiers are unlikely to actually have any beef with you. The the actual Russian soldiers probably they could easily be your friends. I think Ukrainians and Russians for years have been intermaring. And yet these these leaders at the top what do they do? They try to drive us apart as the source of their power. that ordinary human beings are wired to love one another. But we have this problem in that psychologically damaged people always try to manipulate other human beings by causing them to divide.
Neal And it's a as a you probably have encountered this as a podcaster. You you're trying to help people find common ground. It's it's sort of an accident of your profession. You're you're not come you don't bring guests on to disagree with them. You bring guests on to learn about them. You always are going to walk away. Tell me if this isn't true, Sergey. Every time you walk away from a podcast episode, aren't you a little bit smarter?
Sergey Absolutely. Absolutely. 100%.
Neal And and what's more, every time you invite a guest on, you're not just smarter intellectually, you're smarter emotionally because you've learned from the process of engaging with this other person, you've learned almost like somebody who's an MMA fighter or or a fighter pilot for that. Every time you are engaged in a in a sorty in an exercise, you pick up little things you're not even aware you've picked up.
12:50 Storytelling is Emotional
Sergey Well, I'm such a believer in storytelling because stories attached attached to the emotions. And I'll give you an example of how business leaders can do so much better if they tell stories.
Neal Here's a great example. So, in in the United States, there's a a big move to try to get people to not do remote work. They want them to come back to the office. They call it RTO, return to office. Now, part of the reason they want them to come back is very selfish, which is if they have unused real estate, um, it causes a problem to the landlords. And so, they they want to get people to come back and use the buildings. All right. Part of the reason they want to come back in is it's easier to manage people when you can see them. You know, you can see who's working and you can see the relationships. So, it's it's selfish from the standpoint of it makes it easier for the manager. We we can even say the word control.
Sergey Yes. Exactly. The thank you for actually bringing that out because that's what it is. It's they want they want to make it easier to control people.
Neal Well, that's not the only reason why it's useful to have people back in the office. For example, I met my wife at work. You know, I'm a big believer in romance in the office. Why? Because you get to see how people are. You get to see how people are when they're not on a date. you see their the real you that you find out what other people think about them. You can see whether you know how hard they work and whether they're well regarded. Okay, but anyway, here's the way that a really great a manager that tells you um you have to come back into the office because I said so or because you know um you get you get a dock and pay if you don't come back in. that's very much control oriented as opposed to the kind of boss that tells a story.
14:43 Neal's Story on Leaders in his Life
Neal when I was in uh first starting out of my career I didn't get to be the CEO of the company without help and the help I got was from the senior managers of the company who I had developed relationships with the the previous CEO was a great mentor of mine he helped develop me taught me things I wouldn't have otherwise has known. And I didn't realize, why is this guy being so nice to me? Why is he being so generous? Only to discover years later, it's just fun. It's fun to develop young people. It's fun to watch them grow and develop. And it's as it's one of the pleasures, and there aren't a whole lot, but one of the pleasures of being a senior leader is helping young people thrive.
Neal Okay. Now he tells you that story and then he says, you know, if you want to come back into the office, I'm making a special opportunity to stay in touch with young executives and actually develop mentorships. All of a sudden, you're thinking to yourself, gee, if I don't come back into the office, I'm not going to be I'm not going to have a I'm not going to be a protege to a mentor. I'm not going to have an opportunity to develop a relationship and learn from people that know stuff I don't know. You can see how much more effective that is at drawing people back into the office. And it's all based on not him bragging about himself, but him telling you a story about how he developed and he grew in the office and how he got to be a CEO.
Neal And you start to go, "Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Um, that sounds fun. I've I've personally said, "Okay, I've had mentors in the office uh that were accidental, like mentors that weren't my boss at all, but we just ran into each other in the hallway." And um one of the the examples of this was I had no money when I was starting out in advertising and I used to essentially dress in the same clothes every day like like the same pants 5 days a week. And one day, not my boss, but another executive comes up to me. He was always very stylish. And he comes up to me and he says, "Uh, kid, you are stunting your career by dressing like a slob. You look like ass. You look terrible. And I want you to do yourself and me a favor cuz I have to watch you. I want you to go to this very nice store. I want you to buy three new suits. And what we're going to do is you're going to submit the bills to me as expense reports." Okay. And I'm going to sign them. All right. So, we're going to pretend we're going to pretend it's meals that you're taking clients out to meals.
Sergey Okay. Now, it's corrupt, but I'm I'm in.
Neal What what what I found out later, Sergey, was he just bought those suits for me. He didn't he didn't do them as expense reports. Yeah. He just bought them for me. Now, when you find out that somebody did that for you, you tell me how hard you're willing to work for them. And I did wind up working for him. Why? Because I I deliberately went out of my way to work for this guy. It would be like somebody saving your life in battle, you know, like you're their guy from now on. And deeply emotional motivation. I wouldn't hear a negative word spoken about him. I would defend him in meetings. I would look out for him in ways. This is an emotional connection. And you know, I tell you that story and all of a sudden somebody who hears that story from me, they understand, oh, that's how this guy operates. You know, he's he understands loyalty is a two-way street.
Neal So that's the power of storytelling as opposed to just, you know, come back into the office because I said so.
18:51 Summary of a Story isn't a Story
Sergey And you know what I just realized is that exactly what you said in uh one of your videos on your website that it's never about bullet points. It's never about dropping bullet points. is almost you know it gives the same well for me personally it gives me me the same feeling when when I finish reading a book I can take away one two or three ideas but I will remember them for the rest of my life from the entire book you need to read the entire book to take away a few ideas if you just give bullet points or you know these book summaries okay what's the point every everything summarizes everything AI is everywhere but you need to go through blood and sweat and tears to learn something and that's that's in a way uh storytelling uh that that's what's doing for us it's letting us spend more time listening tuning in but then we we learn at least something we can and we can remember the story better than just some dry conclusion.
Neal Yeah, there's a now that you say that it's I'm thinking of the brothers Karam Mazafov and I'm I'm thinking you could summarize that in bullet points and it would completely miss the point. It wouldn't you wouldn't possibly absorb, you know, thinking of Aliosa, you know, like who am I in this paniply of characters? There's, you know, to go back to Simon Synynic, people need to feel why you do what you do um in order to know whether or not they want to be part of it. Yes. And yes, they just human beings are very logic resistant.
20:35 Ferrari Vs. Toyota Corolla
Neal And I'm I'm personally deeply suspicious about anybody who wants to persuade me with uh just just a litany of features. Uh, for example, if you were to put uh a Ferrari next to a Toyota Corolla, on paper, a Ferrari is kind of a joke. Like, terrible maintenance records. You know, you're never going to need this kind of power. It's that's superfluous power. It, you know, it doesn't get very good mileage. It's you, you can see what I mean that all of the by all of the objective criteria, you are an idiot to aspire to a Ferrari. And yet there is a ghost in the machine. There is it is an inanimate object that nevertheless contains a spiritual force. You can feel the designer in there. You can feel the love and talent and magic that the designers put into it. And it's that feeling that's so vital for purpose.
21:57 Why We Deal with Dogs
Neal By the way, uh I always love this as an example of how we need to behave with one another when it comes to persuasion. So if most people love dogs and if if you don't love dogs, like what the hell happened to you? You know, it's it it's a signal of damage. Okay, most people love dogs. But if you really think about them objectively, you say to well, you have to feed them constantly. You have to walk them all the time. You have to pick up their poop. You have to when they're young, they chew on everything and ruin furniture and they pee everywhere. And if you go on a holiday, then you and you can't take them with you. You have to board them and that's expensive. And then talk about expense, you have to take them to the veterinarian, and that's expensive. And then, God help you if they bite someone. Now you're in a lawsuit or you're arrested or whatever. And and on top of all of this, on top of all of the effort, on top of all of the years of struggle, they die. And then chances are, strangely, that's going to be among the the most horrible days of your life. So my question is with all of that, why do people bother? Why do people love dogs so much? And the reason is because dogs love you first. Dogs love you first. They don't wait. They don't wait for your permission. They don't judge you. Sergey, my favorite thing is they never look at you and wonder if they could have done better.
Sergey Right.
Neal So, so I say to myself, I believe that part of the persuasion, the art of persuasion is being the first one to move, being the first one who loves you without judgment. Like I don't wait for somebody to prove to me that they're worthy of it. I make them I make them prove they're unworthy of it. Now what does that have to do with storytelling? When you are telling a story, what you're doing is you are sharing an experience and you're giving somebody else the opportunity to see you for the real human being that you are.
24:03 Don't Make Yourself a Hero
Neal So I tell people, don't ever make yourself the hero of your stories. And here's why. Because when you when you make yourself the hero of a story, it's not credible. It's it doesn't I don't believe you. If on the other hand, you tell me a story about someone you admire or uh for example, when we started this conversation, you mentioned Simon Synynic and you said that he was an influence on you and you were inspired by his work and then you were able to successfully parrot back some of his points. So, right away I know you and I know a lot about you without you having to brag about how wonderful you are.
Sergey Like, yeah, that's cool. Right.
Neal Right. I know I know the I know good things about you because you've chosen to inform me about what inspires you and who has influenced you. Not not that you put yourself on a pedestal with Simon Synynic. In fact, there was something gloriously um endearing about how you said, "I've tried to get Simon Synynic on the show unsuccessfully. I did get a free course out of it." So, just the way that you told that story tells me that you're a fellow human being on a journey and you're not going to try and tell me how successful you are. Although, strangely, it's like I say, we're teammates now, you and I. We're both fellow We're fellow uh Voyagers on this journey because I can't get Simon Synynic on the phone either. In fact, if you had gotten Simon Synynic on the phone, I would be thinking, "Good God." But you know, what are you doing talking to me? You should be out there getting getting Zalinski on the phone.
26:55 A Wedding Toast Scenario
Sergey you mentioned that people should not make themselves the center of the universe and we should and I think this is what I saw in one of your videos about vetting toasts. So outside of business trainings and uh storytelling for business, you also have this course on telling toast. And you said don't make it about yourself, right? Uh make it about other people. And how often how often and how difficult it is how difficult it is in reality not to speak about yourself when you have the spotlight.
Neal Um there is a it's perfectly all right to include yourself in a story 100%. I mean after all this was your experience. Um but you should only do so in the service of um enriching others. Let let me let's talk about the wedding toast for example because this is a really really good example of how people often make the mistake of making it about them. So I want you to pretend that you are attending a wedding. You're a wedding guest. Uh you're you are a friend of the groom. You're you're not you're not the best man, but you're a friend of the groom, and the bride is beautiful, and it's it's really her day more than anyone. And she's dressed in white. I want you to imagine how vulgar it is for another woman to show up to that wedding dressed in white.
Sergey Oh, wow.
Neal What kind of what kind of a jerk do you have to be to compete with the bride? I mean, everybody is looking at you going, "What a bitch." You know what? Go change. All right. A wedding toast. A wedding toast that is about you or that makes you the hero of the story or a wedding toast that belittles either of the bride or the groom. That is a vulgar display. That is a display of mental illness. It should wedding toast has the exclusive task of making of making this a celebration of the bride and groom and wishing them well and thanking them for allowing you to be part of their very important day. And if you're going to tell a story about the bride or the groom, God help you if it is embarrassing to them. You don't think they will have their revenge? That will haunt you for decades.
Sergey Yes, brother. You're going to die in your sleep there, you know, and not by natural causes.
Neal You know, I I have seen revenge taken by women because knowing that they can't outmuscle you, they outthink you. And you are. So my point is this, well that a wedding toast has one task to enrich the day of the young couple and to make them feel wonderful about the new path that they've selected. And in a way, your job is to be forgotten. You know, like your job is to say wonderful things and make them feel a certain way and then they should remember nothing of what you've said. Only how they made you feel or vice versa. Just that's all they should remember is how you made them feel.
Neal And uh I've seen some very skillful wedding toasts that had the marvelous effect of making the entire that making the bride's family feel like you I was a friend of the groom and I and uh one of my nephews got up who was also a friend of the groom and they said the most marvelous thing about how much they looked forward to watching that young man impress his new family like that that they knew that the daughter's judgment was solid and sound because they will they will find that this young man who is dis who is marrying their daughter they will find that over time they will come to love him more each day and not the reverse now they don't remember my nephew but they will remember the the impact of the feeling they had of reassurance and the relief that they had that when people get up and talk about the groom, they say it in in terms that will make the the groom's family feel better.
Sergey That's beautiful. deeply complimented and now your father is feeling better and that makes you feel better and it makes you feel more confident. Neil, it reminded me I I had been a guest at two weddings but at the latest one I h I was courageous enough to read my poem as a toast. So I write poems in uh three languages in Russian, Ukrainian and English. And uh the impression that it made on the father of of a groom, he said that I'm also re writing poetry and we became best buddies right away, you know.
Neal Oh, nice.
32:00 Why Neal's Content Feels so Disarming
Sergey So, I wanted to uh tell you something about the content that you put out because I've been following you. I've seen you on this beautiful podcast. I think it's called Take Off Podcast.
Neal Oh, yeah. Yeah. With Charles. Yeah.
Sergey Yes. And uh I went on a on a journey of checking out your content and everything. You have this uh magnificent ability to make me feel like I'm smarter after watching your videos. You know about this? Yes. And you you you know this story someone gave me another interpretation of it but uh Chad Japeti pulled it up and he said that it said that it was Barbara Walters who interviewed two uh candidates for presidents Richard Nixon and Jimmy Carter. And after interviewing them, she said that one uh was uh like the most intelligent and smart person in the world. After talking to he to him, I felt like he was the smartest person in the world. But after talking to another one, I felt like I was the smartest person in the world. So, and I and this is a twofolded question. First first one is why do you think it is that I I someone who don't speak English as my native English feel like I'm so much smarter after watching your videos? And the second question is there something about choosing a simpler language in our storytelling and not using uh big fancy uh scientific words and everything.
Neal Well, first I'm going to start with the my astonishment that you are a poet in three languages. That is that is amazing. and my compliments. Your English your English is excellent by the way. Um, not only do you speak it quite well, but your accent is very good. Uh, it has it has it has the wonderful quality of of there's being enough accent where I know you come from and so because of that I I get a a sense of the depth of um where you know your culture and your sensibilities.
Neal But um let me go to the your the effect that you feel like you've walked away smarter. I don't think in fact I I I'm going to question whether or not you actually have the feeling that you walk away smarter with this. I I believe that what happens is I'm only saying things that you felt and because I because you and I have felt the same things, you feel reassured that you're on the right track because we're both experiencing we are both experiencing life coming from the same um the the Simon cynic why we're both we're both looking around us and going I will I don't want to run people down I don't want to make people feel badly about themselves I'm trying to reassure everyone in an age of social media that is dividing us when it is trying to make us feel like we are surrounded by enemies when you think your way of life is under assault. What I'm trying to reassure all of us about is, you know, most of us, and I mean most of us, would all be friends if it weren't for national borders and police and uh and bad actors who are psychologically damaged.
36:15 Human Desire to Be Friends
Neal And because of their own psychological damage, they're trying to control the rest of us. that instinctively, you know, you and I are thousands and thousands of kilometers apart and yet we share so much. We think many of the same things. We feel the same way. What does that tell you? It tells you that even at a distance of thousands of kilometers with different life experiences, we are both human beings who want to reach out and be warm friends.
Neal Uh it my guess is Sergey you could land in almost any country on earth and find friends in a day that you could find yourself in Ecuador or in Korea or Malaysia and it wouldn't take you long to find your tribe because most people are friendly, most people are sweet. It's it's only when and by the way there is a book uh called tribe by a man named Sebastian Younger that that's Ju N g Sebastian Younger in his book Tribe he talks about how during disasters when all of our movies portray everybody that when when resources get scarce all of a sudden everybody arms up and starts stealing from one another. The actual truth is that's not what happens. When when material gets scarce, people share and we are often at our best when conditions are the worst in the uh Bosnian I forget what it's called, but do you remember Bosnia and and Right. Right. that during the all of that horrible Civil War that in fact people are now becoming nostalgic about how friendly everybody was back then, about how all the class divisions disappeared and how people shared and taxi drivers would risk their lives to get people across the sniper alley and uh sometimes for free.
Neal And this is the way people really are except that we get propagandized into hatreds. So when you and I agree on something and you you say you feel smarter, I think what's really happening is a truth is bubbling up and it's making you feel like I think I was right about that.
Sergey Yes. Yes. Yes.
38:35 Choosing Words Right
Neal Um, there's a, uh, there's a simplicity to what I'm trying to do, but also I will often choose a vocabulary word to be colorful that is an uncommon word. And I do that deliberately to give people the impression that I am more literate than I am. So, I will I will I'll go through almost any script that I do and I'll look for adjectives and then I'll substitute a fancy adjective for one that was just plain before. And so, for example, I I used to I love this example. Instead of some saying that two people had a fight, I will say they had a kurfuffle or that it was a Donny Brook. And the reason I'll choose these very unusual words is because a it's amusing and b it makes me appear more thoughtful.
Neal And can I tell you there was a there was a very famous American politician that it's unlikely you've heard of. His name was Huey Long and he was the one-time governor of the state of Louisiana. Now, Louisiana is a very unusual state because unlike most of the United States or the Northeast, its beginnings were French. And so they uh French Canadians had come down there. The French people from Aadia had gone down to Louisiana and uh they spoke a language. They called them cinjuns because that was the Americanization of the word Acadians. So they called them cinjuns and they spoke this very peculiar patto they called kinjun and so it was a it was a bastardized French. Well because of this language and because of the culture of New Orleans which was always a melting pot a kind of gumbo of different races. Louisiana always felt separate from the rest of the country and Huie Long thrived down there. Now much of the state was very poor and he considered it the poorest people of the state his tribe.
Neal Now meanwhile he used to wear these very expensive suits and he would go to these political rallies with poor people in the audience in a very fancy handmade suit. And then at one point during his speech while he was talking about how he was going to stick it to the rich, he would pull off his shoe and reveal that his sock had a hole in it. And he would say, "I'm just like you. Why? I can't afford these fancy pants, new socks." Never mind that he's wearing a $3,000 suit in 1933. And now you would think that the audience would would see the hypocrisy and see the conflict, but instead they just look at this this man and they say, "Yes, he's just like me." Now, when you would confront them and you would say, "He is wearing a $3,000 suit." They would say, "Well, I don't want the governor driving around in overalls. I want the governor to look snappy."
Neal And by the way, for your purposes, given that you are writing in three languages, I'm going to guess that there are some magnificent oldtime dostovski check off. You know, there's some old terms that you can pull from history and salt your stories with in a way where people people in the know are going to recognize it and people that are not recognizing it are nevertheless going to feel the vibe of these. Well, you have a tradition of poetry that we don't have.
42:41 Poetry: Noticing the Magic
Neal Um, it's so ironic that we were that you did this poem at this wedding. I just posted on social media this morning literally a story about poetry and um it's called noticing the noticing the magic and the opening line of it is you know Americans seem to have a kind of contempt for poetry and I think that is to their great detriment they don't feel they don't give themselves the chance to feel enough they think everything has to be figured out Um, and I think that's a I think that may be one of the flaws of the American soul is it's slightly too practical.
Sergey You know, I I like writing poems in English because sometimes I don't even understand exactly what I mean with the metaphor that I bring, you know, and it gives me and people who hear it uh an ability to interpret it the way they want. And this is the magic. It's like a threedimensional storytelling.
Neal Yeah. That's very shrewd.
44:00 Authenticity Matters
Sergey Neil, as we wrap up, uh I wanna since you have experience telling story, creating advertising and you have experience uh performing on stage and doing content and running different social media. Is there some common best practices that can be implemented across the board wherever you're telling your stories? Either it's an advertisement that is uh shown during Super Bowl or it's a newsletter or it's a wedding speech. some things as we wrap up this segment that people can take away and implement in their storytelling right away.
Neal Well, I I have a million things to say, but as as we're wrapping up, I want to leave just this lasting one impression with people, and that is that your authentic self, your genuine self, the things you really feel, you're you're being yourself and being you, is vastly more important than being slick and professional and um and uh polished. And I'll give you an example of what I mean. So when people sense that it's a real human being on the other side of a conversation, they are more likely to feel like they can trust you because you have flaws, too. You don't put on airs like you're a big shot. You're not trying to steal from anybody. You're not trying to fool anybody. When somebody's really slick, it feels creepy. It feels like they're trying to fool you, to to con you.
Neal So, it's better that people interpret you as sincere than it is for you to appear polished. So, often times when people are afraid, they get stage fright or they feel like they're not very good presenters, they will they'll be nervous in front of an audience and they and they'll get inside their own head thinking this isn't going to over very well. But that's not true because the audience really doesn't care about you. They don't they don't mind if you're nervous. All they want to know is whether or not what you're telling them is useful to them. They just want to know if it's useful. And it's often counterintuitive. Uh but I'm telling people that are sometimes nervous about getting up on stage. I will tell you the truth from the perspective of the audience that sometimes it's advantageous that you're nervous because they don't feel like in the power struggle you're to be feared. So all of a sudden if they're not afraid of you, they're they're listening from a standpoint of sympathy and empathy and commonality.
Neal And anybody that gets up on stage and is a little bit too professional, it's a little bit like bragging. Therefore, it becomes really essential that if you are good, don't make a big show of it. Yeah. Just try to make sure that the message is about how I'm trying to help you. So often times when people have come to me with the problem of stage fright, I'm I don't spend a whole lot of time trying to break them of their stage fright. Instead, I just try to give them like I was talking about, you know, on a date, just give them the first 30 seconds so that the audience understands where they're coming from and is sympathetic to that as a goal. And the audience perceives, oh, this isn't about them. This is about them trying to help me.
Neal Um, let's go back to Simon Synynic for a minute. Simon Synynic is very slick. He's very well rehearsed. But he doesn't come off like that, does he?
Sergey Yeah. He comes off like he cares about you. Like he's a good buddy of you.
Neal That's cuz that's cuz he is trying to help you. He is trying to help you. He It's his brand. And um Gary Veaynerchuk in the United States is the same thing. But uh for your for the benefit of your guests, it's you can do yourself an enormous favor in any presentation you have to make and just get the first 30 seconds or the first 60 seconds. Rehearse the out of it so you know exactly what you're going to say and then it won't matter if you're nervous because you you're going to do what you came to do. Just give yourself enough self-respect and give yourself a gift of preparing the first minute enough to you will be confident at least in that.
49:24 Best Advertising Practices
Sergey Neil. But this is just the last thing is completely driven by my uh business interest because I have a video production company and just recently we've started offering video advertising uh you know up to one minute for businesses. There is there is no personal story there. How do we go around ads for businesses?
Neal Then the the best advertising from my entire career always had at its center a concern for the welfare of the customer. So it was always a kind of love letter to their problems. So, for example, if if uh let's say you are a you are a stay-at-home mother or or you're a single mother and you have all of these you have all of these things you have to balance and you have lots of time is a problem and fatigue is a problem and you'd like to be good to your children. If I'm doing an ad to help you, I really need to tell I need to persuade you I understand the problems you're having. So, lay out the problems. see you. I see. But in a way that's quite sympathetic to the person suffering the problem.
Neal And in doing so, as soon as somebody feels like they're appreciated and they're understood and they and and that their struggles are understood, now they want to buy from you because you've acknowledged them as a human being. If on the other hand, you just start listing your features. Well, a lot of people do that and it doesn't set you apart at all and it doesn't tell me you understand me. It doesn't establish an emotional connection. Emotions are what drive decisions. We used to call it irrational loyalty or loyalty beyond reason. That's when they want to buy from you so much they'll spend an extra dollar just for the privilege of of voting for the person who understands them. That's that's a brand is somebody who understands my struggle.
Neal And if we if we go back to the Ferrari as an example now, you wouldn't think that Ferrari is sympathetic to their customers. In fact, it's it's such a trial. It's so so difficult to buy a Ferrari. It is as if they're trying to get you not to. But strangely, they do. Strangely, they do understand. They understand you very well and they understand the struggle you're having which is you have worked so hard and you have strained and bent rules and you have struggled and you're finally at the point when you say I want to make a statement that I am special.
Sergey Yes sir. And that I'm not like other people.
Neal Yes. So So what does Ferrari do to answer your problems? They make that product. So beautiful and so it sounds good and it looks like we all know that Ferraris are often they have a strange feminine energy to them, right? They they often resemble women's curves. Like do you think that's an accident? No. The products are sexual. Yeah. The products are they ooze sexuality and this solves a problem for their owners. Now think about the buying the strain of buying a Ferrari. That's all part of the brand. It's if you can finally get to own one of these things. Very few people can, which makes you special, which means you and I understand each other. This is only meant for a very few, right? And it's the scarcity that makes it half half the
53:30 Special Present from Neal
Sergey I get goosebumps. I mean, guys, if you want to learn how to tell stories just like Neil has uh told them during this amazing conversation, you can go to his uh website storyfire.net. There are courses for you that you can check out. Any other things you want to mention before we plug off?
Neal Well, since Simon Synynic gave you a free course, I'm going to give you one too, Sergey. So, I'll be doing a discount code for you. Um, yes. And and um uh so if and for the benefit of your users, they won't get a free one, but they can get 30% off if they if they use Inspire uh Inspire 30 all caps as their discount code.
Sergey Cool. So so awesome. I will I'll make sure to promote this.
Neal Great. I want you to I want you to watch the Yeah. I want you to watch the course and then I want you to uh give me your feedback. You don't have to do it publicly. You can just send me an email. But I'd be very I'd be very curious to hear what you think of it.
Sergey That was Neil Ford, everybody. Thank you, Neil.