Richard Moore: From 80-Hour Burnout to Millions — Sales, LinkedIn Branding & Premium Client Acquisition Secrets | Be Yourself Podcast
Be Yourself Podcast

RichardMoore

Sales & Conversion Coach, Founder of Art of Sell — on Going From 80-Hour-Week Burnout to a Million-Dollar Business, Why Viral Metrics Don't Equal Sales, and How to Attract Premium Clients on LinkedIn

49 minutes
Sales · Burnout Recovery · LinkedIn Branding · Client Acquisition · Solopreneurship · Conversion Strategy

From 80-Hour-Week Burnout to a Million-Dollar Coaching Business: Richard Moore on Why Viral Metrics Don't Equal Sales, Targeting Premium Buyers, and Building an Influential LinkedIn Brand

Richard Moore used to measure his weeks in hours worked, not results delivered — 80-hour weeks, constant grinding, and a corporate career that eventually pushed him to what he calls a "mental implosion." That breaking point became the turning point: Richard walked away from the corporate treadmill and built Art of Sell, a coaching practice that has since helped him and his clients generate millions in sales.

In this episode of the Be Yourself Podcast, Richard challenges one of the most common assumptions in the creator and solopreneur world — that more followers, more views, and more viral content automatically translate into more revenue. He explains why most social media strategies run on hope rather than an actual conversion plan, and what it really takes to attract premium clients who are aligned with your offer instead of just curious about your content.

He also gets personal about the cost of burnout, what it took to redesign a life around freedom and integrity, and the practical steps solopreneurs and sales leaders can take to build a personal brand on LinkedIn that actually converts — not just one that looks good.

01
Richard's "mental implosion" — hitting the breaking point after years of 80-hour weeks
Richard opens up about the corporate burnout that pushed him to his limit, what that breaking point actually felt like, and why it became the catalyst for completely redesigning how he works and lives.
02
From burnout to Art of Sell — how Richard rebuilt his career around sales and conversion coaching
The path from walking away from a draining corporate role to founding Art of Sell, and how that shift let Richard rebuild a business — and a life — centered on freedom and integrity.
03
Why viral metrics don't equal sales — the gap between attention and revenue
Richard breaks down why follower counts, views, and viral moments so often fail to translate into actual clients, and why chasing those numbers can quietly become a distraction from what actually grows a business.
04
Targeting premium buyers — client acquisition through alignment, not hope
How Richard thinks about identifying and attracting premium clients: building an offer and a message that's aligned with the right buyer, rather than hoping the right person stumbles onto your content.
05
Building a personal brand on LinkedIn that actually converts
Practical guidance for solopreneurs and sales leaders on turning a LinkedIn presence into a real client-acquisition channel — not just a place to post for visibility.
06
Designing a life around freedom and integrity — Richard's advice for solopreneurs and sales leaders
Richard closes out with what he's learned about building a business that supports the life you actually want, and how solopreneurs and sales leaders can apply that thinking to their own work.

Richard Moore — Sales & Conversion Coach, Founder of Art of Sell

Richard Moore spent years grinding through 80-hour corporate weeks before reaching what he describes as a "mental implosion" — a breaking point that forced him to rethink everything about how he worked and lived. Out of that reckoning came Art of Sell, the coaching practice he founded to help solopreneurs and sales leaders build sales and conversion strategies that actually work, rather than relying on hope, hustle, or vanity metrics.

Since founding Art of Sell, Richard has helped himself and his clients generate millions in sales by focusing on alignment — building offers, messaging, and personal brands that attract the right premium buyers instead of chasing the broadest possible audience. He's especially known for his take on LinkedIn: turning it from a platform people post on for visibility into a real, repeatable client-acquisition channel.

Beyond the tactics, Richard is candid about what burnout cost him and what it took to design a business and a life built around freedom and integrity — themes that run through everything he shares in this conversation.

His Path
80-hour-week corporate burnout → a "mental implosion" → founding Art of Sell, a sales and conversion coaching practice built around alignment, freedom, and integrity.
What He Does Now
Runs Art of Sell, coaching solopreneurs and sales leaders on conversion strategy, premium client acquisition, and building personal brands that turn into real revenue.
On Viral Metrics vs. Sales
Richard's core message: followers, views, and viral moments don't equal sales — real growth comes from alignment between your offer and the right buyer, not from hoping the numbers convert.
On LinkedIn & Personal Branding
Teaches solopreneurs and sales leaders how to build an influential LinkedIn presence that functions as a genuine client-acquisition engine, not just a content feed.

You'd be surprised how much the right people are actually watching. Even when no one steps forward, they are actually watching. However, we're not compelling them to move forward.

Richard Moore

A strong personal brand is about alignment. It is the right people seeing you in the right way.

Richard Moore

The way most people go about this, Sergey, is they say, "Let's post again this morning and hopefully today someone might buy something." And that is not a strategy. That is hope.

Richard Moore


0:00 Intro
Richard I've been on LinkedIn for like eight years now doing this content thing, and I've made millions — and then the hundreds and hundreds of customers who are solo people who've joined my programs collectively have made even more. I'm not in a game of chasing the thousands of people. I'm in a game of creating a loyal community, a loyal tribe of people.
Richard The way most people go about this, Sergey, is they say, "Let's post again this morning and hopefully today someone might buy something." And that is not a strategy. That is hope.
Richard You'd be surprised how much the right people are actually watching. However, we're not compelling them.
Sergey That's great. It's true. What is the most controversial take about social selling?
Richard It's a great question to start.
Sergey And hey everyone, welcome to the Be Yourself podcast, the podcast on expressing our true selves. Today my guest is Richard Moore, who's a conversion coach, a sales strategist and founder of LinkedIn Client Acceleration Program, where he's helped thousands of business people. He's got a massive following on LinkedIn. He's worked with big clients like Forbes, Microsoft, Oxford University, Deloitte, you name it. Richard, welcome to the show.
Richard So, thank you so much. It's a really kind intro as well. I am loving that we're going to start my week doing this. What a great way to begin things.
Sergey Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm going to start asking you a rather edgy question.
1:36 The Biggest Myth in Social Selling
Sergey I know that you are known for rather unpopular takes on what it takes to build a personal brand or how to make money online. So, if I were to ask you, what is the most controversial take about social selling that you make these days?
Richard It's a great question to start, and uh, I can see the trailer for your podcast right now.
Sergey Okay.
Richard So, I think it's so interesting this question, because the answer I'm going to give is controversial compared to the mainstream narrative, but actually it's really not that big a deal when you really think about it. So, here's what it is. And to give you some context, I come at everything from a client acquisition perspective. So, that's crucial. The big thing with social selling is this: good, or doing well, or performing, is always seen by most people as "I got more views" or "I got lots of reach" or "I went viral." And so when people say to me, "My post did really well, Richard," I know that 99.9% of the time they mean "I got lots of views compared to last time." And it really annoys me. So, you got me ranting on the first question, Sergey, because it does not feed into this question of: yes, but who's looking? Now, remember, I'm a LinkedIn guy, so what I look at is: can I see the nurture of the right people through my piece of content? I have met — and this is so important, you hear this — multiple people getting more than a million impressions a week on LinkedIn and have no customers. Not just once — multiple people. And there are so many more, because they're sold all the time on "just get more, just get more, just get more." The thing that's missing is: yes, but who? And so the moment we understand that, what we need to be doing more than anything, if we're using social selling — so, using social media to build and get our businesses going — we need to be asking ourselves: are we being seen by the right people in the right way? And that's all that matters. So, in the last — I've been on LinkedIn for like eight years now doing this content thing, and I've made millions — with an "s" at the end — millions in sales over the years for myself.
Sergey Here we go.
Richard Thank you. And then the hundreds and hundreds of customers who are, like, solo people who have joined my programs collectively have made even more, because we focus on: are we saying the right things to the right people? And I think — how I'm going to put this in a really important way for you — I think it is a disease in social media that the focus is so much on the mid-part of the process of acquiring a customer. It's not the start — the strategy, who we're targeting, how we're doing it. It's the mid-part. And you will hear — and I'm going to call this out for your future episodes, and I want your audience to listen to this stuff — you will hear guests on this show, and it's not just this show, on all shows, talking about how a strong personal brand is such a strong personal brand because they get lots of followers and views.
Sergey Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
5:18 What Personal Brand is NOT
Richard It is wrong. It is not even close to being inaccurate — it's wrong. A strong personal brand is about alignment. It is the right people seeing you in the right way. And when people say, "Oh, they've got such a strong personal brand," what they actually often mean is: this account has managed to synthesize, or engineer, the perception of popularity. In short: if I can go viral, I must have a strong personal brand, right? No. Because if it was as easy as that — just go buy some followers, just go buy some views, or just go into an engagement pod... I'm the guy — this is going to sound arrogant, but this is just truth — I'm the guy that gets called into all of the communities to do the talks on how to do the conversion bit, because all of the followers join these communities to learn how to grow their brands or build their businesses, or even worse, Sergey, they're called "scaling their businesses." All they're actually doing is getting more views and getting more followers. And when the honeymoon period's over and they start getting twitchy 'cause they realize they're broke, they call me in to go, "And here's actually how you sell someone." So, it is — it is so worrying — the number of even personal branding specialists that I coach, and I'm not in personal branding, but the difference is I understand buyers, and ultimately that's what matters. Now, I will not — just to finish on this one — I will not speak for Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, because I get that it is a volume game on subscribers and views, and actually, the completely wrong person watching your video to the end is still useful, 'cause that can work. But on LinkedIn, the idea is: am I getting the right person to be nurtured enough to want to buy something? So there's our start point. But it's just so important that people understand: you just need to say the right things to the right people. And it's funny, isn't it? 'Cause when you start making money, suddenly your follower count or your number of impressions just doesn't seem to matter as much anymore.
Sergey So good. And I can take it to so many different places from here. But I want to say — for a YouTuber, I also get these spikes of viral hits in the moment. I'm psyched, I'm super excited — wow, I get so many people. But then I see on the next episode, I get my average number of views, which is like 150. Okay. And I know basically that the customer, in your LinkedIn terms, for me as a YouTuber means the returning viewer. So I'm not in a game of chasing the thousands of people. I'm in a game of creating a loyal community, a loyal tribe of people who share the same values as me.
8:45 Strategy Change
Sergey So I understand this. What I want to ask you: when you come to these people who acquired a mass following and they ask you, "Richard, help us" — can you help them at that point if they have maybe these random or wrong people? Or should we start thinking about it right away, like creating our strategy in a really thoughtful way, to actually get ourselves to sales through online activities?
Richard Yeah, I think a lot of people say, "I'll just get some views first and then I'll tune it afterwards." I think it's really important to draw a line in the sand wherever you are and say to yourself, "What do I actually want here?" Because let's be clear, for everyone, the reason why they start a business and use the online component, social selling or social media, is to acquire customers — that is, to generate income. So, they have to say to themselves, "Is that still why I'm here?" Because the answer is yes. But we lose sight of it. So we have to firstly say that. And then the second thing, which is the hard one, is: is my ego cool with changing direction? And there are so many sunk cost fallacies. You know, the number of people, for example, who cannot possibly stop posting on Instagram because that's what they've always done, despite it never — but there's nothing wrong with Instagram, it's the strategy. It might be that Instagram's never made them any money. I've had — there are people, when I am direct with them about this kind of question, they just don't — they just can't do it. They are not willing to change because they can't stand the thought of getting less reach and less engagement. I remember working with someone once, and in the end she quit on me. She was like, "I can't. I'm sorry. My reach has dropped so much." And I'm like, "But the right people are now looking at you." And she's like, "But, it's, you know, I can't do this." So, I think the answer in here is: are we cool with our egos being quietened somewhat for a minute? Because what we have to say to ourselves is, no matter where we are — on day one, or two years in, and we've built this viral, everyday kind of following, but no one ever buys — we've got to say to ourselves, if we're missing alignment, and that's being shown by the fact no one's interested in buying, ever, then we have to make a change, because otherwise we're hoping, and that is the strategy — hope that we might happen to get someone caught up in the net that sells themselves somehow. What is so important is we map to actions that allow us to say, at the start of a week: if I need a client this week, I know the actions that I can do to craft a sale. The way most people go about this, Sergey, is they say, "Let's post again this morning and hopefully today someone might buy something." And that is not a strategy. That is hope. That's like buying lottery tickets and hoping you win. And it's like, you need to be able to make money now if you need money now. And I think, you know, it begs the question: well, why are people like this? It's avoidance, because it's easy to post online, relatively speaking. It's easy to comment a bunch and get more people to come and look at you. What's harder is to go and ask for something. And so the winners, the ones that last — you know, look at the statistics, the number of companies that fail. Like, you realize it's 1% of companies make it to 10 years. One. And there's a reason. It's cash flow. It's always cash flow. People don't get any customers, then they have to go back, go back and get a job, or they live in their parents' basement, or they convince themselves they're happy, but they're miserable, making no money. And it's like — it's not difficult. There's a process, I'm happy to share, but there's a process to understand what do we need to be saying to the right people, and then everything sorts itself out, and it can be quite quickly. And here's the big truth — this is one of the big takeaways for people.
13:16 Who's Watching You
Richard You'd be surprised how much the right people are actually watching. Even when no one steps forward, they are actually watching. However, we're not compelling them to move forward.
Sergey It's true.
Richard So, the way I need people to see this, because the way people say is, "Oh, I can't get any customers, I just keep getting the wrong people." No. The way it actually works is: you've got the whole spectrum watching. You've got broke losers watching. You've got people who are doom-scrolling watching. You've got people who are never going to buy anything watching, all the way up to premium buyers. In the main, these people see this stuff. But it's a question you've got to ask yourself, because a really good life lesson is: usually, most things are my fault. And a really good start point is looking at the content — whatever I'm putting out is compelling a certain part of that spectrum of audience to step forward. So, if you keep getting broke people pushing you on price, it's because you are conditioning that set of people that that's who should step forward. People don't like hearing this, like, "But my content's really good." No, it's clearly not, because the market is voting. Or if you get premium people stepping forward, then it means you're compelling them. And I just think one of the best analogies is a Rolls-Royce showroom. You don't get people walking into a Rolls-Royce showroom, even though everyone knows about Rolls-Royce, and going, "Oh, that's a bit expensive, can we have a discount?" It doesn't happen. They're scared off. And the right people come in, and they're like, "I'm here to buy premium, and I'm expecting to pay big, and that's the point — this is the elite club I want to be part of." And so they've done that conditioning really well. And so it starts way upstream, with content and who we're targeting. So that's in there — that's where our solution is, and it doesn't have to be difficult. It's actually quite simple after a while, when you realize what you need to do.
15:29 Richard's Personal Story
Sergey We're going to come back to this closer to the end of the show, where I'm going to ask you about some practical tips that all of us LinkedIn creators can use. But right now I want to ask you, because I've seen that you had this experience of nailing conversion mechanisms on Facebook too, and before that you worked in the corporate world. So, what led to this place in life? What can you tell us a little bit about your backstory, and how come you're cracking this code so easily now?
Richard I'm 45 now, Sergey, so my backstory is quite long. So I'll keep it brief for you. Okay. So, after university — to give people a sense of it — I was incredibly shy, always so shy, really introverted, that's naturally my state. And I was doing my masters at Warwick University in History, and I wanted to be a lecturer, an academic, write papers. And I tried to get funding for a PhD, and I failed — I didn't, my subject wasn't sexy enough. So I had to get a job. This was 2003, and my first job — I got the first job I applied for, in fact.
Sergey And what was your city of residence?
Richard I was in Warwick, and I was like, "Well, I have to go to London, that's where opportunity is." So, I was in Warwick in the Midlands, and the first job I got was telesales — cold calling, selling internet marketing — in 2003, just after the bubble had burst, and people were very cynical. So, a very nervous, shy guy doing cold calling. And my job was: in half an hour I had to get a decision maker on the phone and sell them — for three and a half grand, a year of internet marketing — that's how cheap it was back then. And so, I did 10 years of corporate. I became a sales leader very quickly, and then a head of sales. I was headhunted, I moved through virtual conferences, digital publications, and ended up in recruitment — so, that's face-to-face selling. I was flying all over Europe, closing deals in Zurich or in the City, and it was really kind of fun, and ended up as a sales director. And then, 2012 was the worst year of my life, because — and I don't mind sharing this, I've had a lot of therapy, it's fine — so the year started with, I was very close to my grandparents, Sergey, so the year started with my grandmother passing away. She was very old, so it was kind of okay. And then my first daughter was born in August, but she was born without an esophagus, so, like, all the pipes down here were just — like, not there, really. So she went straight to surgery immediately. She was in, like, an induced coma for 11 days, so she wouldn't move her mouth or anything like that. So I didn't even hold my baby for almost two weeks. Meanwhile, my mother had stage four bowel cancer, and, Jesus, three months later, my daughter came out of hospital just two weeks before my mother then passed away. So, that was a year. And, you know, it's weird, because adversity is horrible at the time, but it is a gift in hindsight. It really makes you — can you imagine how much I don't like wasted time, and how much I'm grateful for the little things, and how much I have a problem with people complaining about stuff. So, good news for my daughter is that she's absolutely thriving and doing fine. It was just a brutal year. But anyway, all is to say, 2013 was my big mental implosion. So I burnt out, because I tackled everything by working harder. So I was doing 80-hour weeks in London, and, like, just working, working, trying to push through this pain, and it was just too much. So it broke me. And at the end of the year, I decided that was it. And so, 2014, I started my own business. I left it — I left it all. Dude, I had people saying, like, "You are irresponsible. You should be working, 'cause you've got a wife and kid that need that money. That is so irresponsible." I'm like, "But what about me? What about my mental health?" But people, like, don't care — I had close people to me saying that's really irresponsible. But one thing I could do, I knew I could do, is sell. So, the first thing I did was I closed a deal with the company that I left, as a consultant for them.
Sergey Yeah, I mean, they're right there, right?
Richard So, then the next thing I did was I closed a deal with the company I was headhunted from, to go to that company to do another deal there.
Sergey Yeah, talk about — they'd already been nurtured somewhat.
Richard So, never burn bridges — that's an answer there. But, straight away in 2014, I started — I also went to Facebook, and I had a Facebook account, which is free, a Skype account, remember that? Which is free, and a PayPal account as well, for money. And I remember I was like, "I'm just going to start posting, 'cause I can help people learn how to close." And I discovered the world of the solopreneur — like, entrepreneurial people who are founders, and they were all doing the same thing they're doing now, which is posting online and praying that someone might buy something, and they're all broke. So, the first deal I did was a guy in Florida called JT, and it was $297 — I don't know why I picked that ridiculous number — for a month of coaching, and I was giving him one-on-one each week. And I remember I was like, "Why don't I just show you how to close deals?" And he was like, "Would you?" And these — I was like, "These people want to talk to me," unlike decision makers when you cold call them, and they can afford to speak to me, and I get all the money — this is so straightforward compared to corporate B2B selling. So then I just went crazy from there. And so, yeah, I did a bit of Facebook, then a bit of Instagram, but then in 2018 I was like, "LinkedIn is like a thing for content suddenly. I'm going to try that." And I was like one of the first people who was doing content properly on LinkedIn. So, like, video and things like that had just started. I swear there were like 50 of us doing it properly, and everyone else is like, "Here's our white..."
Sergey So you're an original pro, right?
Richard Yeah, like — I'm like the granddad on LinkedIn content. And it's been so interesting seeing everything, like all the different products and features. I've consulted with LinkedIn and helped them with some bits of it, and they're now a client. But it's so interesting seeing how things have changed. But really, the thing that's been front and center, as well as helping corporates with selling elegance and buyer psychology, is helping these solopreneurs to actually convert, because so much effort — and, like, they're so over-indexed in trying to get more views and followers that they just lose sight of, you know, getting customers in the first place. And, like, so it keeps me in work. But yeah, this has been — this is my focus now. And I soon dropped Facebook and Instagram, because why bother when LinkedIn's so aligned? Uh, your fellow British man Greg McKeown...
22:54 Focus on What We Love
Sergey ...with his book Essentialism is like one of my —
Richard Yes.
Sergey It's one of my favorite books and essential reading.
Richard Yeah. Yeah.
Sergey Obviously, staying focused — have we always had focus, and what is the most worthy focus right now, do you think, for us people trying to get clients on LinkedIn?
Richard I haven't always had focus. I didn't have it to start with, and I struggled, because I had to have massive focus when I was in corporate, and toward the end — it wasn't even just, it wasn't natural focus toward the end, because I was exhausted. Remember, I was a new dad on top of this as well. So, like, no sleep, and I was, like, I just was fighting. I was fighting to not be a zombie. And, like, I was, like, broken, dude. I was, like, crying and everything as well. And so I was really struggling. But I knew — but I am, I've always been diligent, and I've always been, like — so, my two values are excellence and integrity. So those two things matter to me most. And so, showing up loyally, doing the work, is always important to me. So, this idea of, when I started my business, of never dropping the ball ever, because I'm responsible — not just for me, not just for my business, which, by the way, I view my business as one of my babies, that's the way I look at it. But also, I had — my wife was no longer a lawyer making money, she was a mom with no income, and my baby, and, like, and bills and so on. So I've always been responsible, I think, and that's what's pulled me through. But there was a lot of procrastinating to start with, and a lot of not knowing what direction to go in, because just because you have a skill set — I'd done 10 years of selling, and all I did was selling — it doesn't mean you know how to go to market, because everything had been done before me in a company. But I think that, if I look to now, I just — I think it's virtue. It's virtue of having children, it's also virtue of age, somewhat as well. There's just no time to waste, because everyone's like, "Oh, you're so young. You know, you'll live a long life." Sure, if I do, but this is my prime. These are the years where I've got my energy and my mental focus, and like — and this is it. This is, like, game time. Not when I'm 65 or 70 and I've got all that experience — it's now. And it's a sweet spot, that I have, when — I think when you're middle age, what happens is those that are older respect you because you're not too young, and those that are younger respect you because they relate to you, because you're not too old. So a lot of the people I coach are kind of — you know, it's like, it's a real sweet spot. And so I'm massively aware I do not want to waste the opportunity, and I wake up every day — I never need an alarm. Am I always up and on it? But also, you know, I'm sure it's the same with you — I, one of the things I made a point of doing when I left corporate work was, I said to myself, "I want to design a life I want to lead." And so, one of the big things is, like, on a Sunday, I don't want this feeling of like, "Oh, I've got Monday." I'm like, "I can't wait." Like, I can't sleep, I can't wait to get to the next day.
Sergey So awesome.
Richard And when you build that, like, that works, you know. And so I think it's just so important — I really like being me now. And so focus is not a trial I have to kind of force. It's like, "Can't I get to do this thing," you know? And so I often say, like, if I had all the money in the world and didn't need to do this, you'd still find me here doing it, because I just love it. And I think that is so important for people, you know, to give a sense of it — like, dropping off my daughter at school today, right? On the way back, I'm listening to Bloomberg in the car, as opposed to, you know, like, if I'm on a flight somewhere, I'm reading Harvard Business Review. I just love it, and, like, yeah, it's just my — and I think it's crucial for everyone. I remember Ravi Niccant once said that the key to life is to productize yourself — to find something that feels like work for others but doesn't feel like work for you, because you will always outpace, like, win over, in being you. No one can compete with you in being you.
Sergey So you're just being you, Richard, and no one can read a Harvard review on the plane. All right. So there's —
Richard No, exactly. And I'm like, I just — I love being in this kind of bubble I've created, where I get to — I just love observing and being part of business. You know, it's really interesting, this, because I think it's something that people really need to hear, because what they do is they often emulate their heroes. They're trying to copy their heroes, but what's happening is they're trying to force something where their hero loves that thing. You see it a lot with someone like Alex Hormozi, for instance, who is someone who, in his natural state — if he had no one watching, he would still massively focus on his working out every day and business. He loves it to his core. Not a duty for him.
Sergey Yeah, he is a beast.
Richard And so you get people who are like, "I want to run my own business," and they have more than a passing interest in doing this stuff, and they try and act like him, but they can never win, because that's what he does. And actually, a really good example as well — someone in my opinion you should have on this show — is one of my close friends, Laura Costa.
Sergey So —
Richard I've known her and worked with her for — she's a LinkedIn consultant, right?
Sergey A coach.
Richard That's right. Yeah. So, she really understands LinkedIn and personal brand really well. And I met her in 2022, when she just started, and she was still in Mexico. And now she runs — you know, she's built a multiple six-figure business, and a seven-figure business. And she's a really good example of this too. She's like 28 years old, and she and I have been in touch, like, pretty much every day, for years. And the thing that stands out with her is: at any given moment, she is either working, thinking about work, talking about work, or considering her next move about work. It is her obsession. And people are like, "Oh, you should take a break and have fun." It's like, "But this is my fun." And, if my wife and kids were out for the day, you wouldn't see me chilling and watching Netflix. I'm here doing this. And it's just because this is the thing I love to do. I think if you can — you're right — if you can productize the thing that you love, then you tend to do very well. And it shows, because otherwise you're having to force it. And her obsession with the internet, as she said, has paid off, because, like, it's the thing she wants to do, and so she's learned to use it in a way that helps her bank account, and many other things, of course, too.
Sergey Yeah. Well, I recognize myself in what you just described, because I think about trailers and, you know, the overarching topic, part of the discussion. So, I'm becoming more of a pro, and you're falling in love with the process.
30:54 The Comparison Disease
Sergey Let's be real. When you're actually progressing, when you're — when you're — when you're just staying plateau, there's no fun in that. So I think a lot of times people just do stuff that's not meant for them, and they're not progressing, and they get frustrated because they're constantly comparing themselves. I think this is like a disease, also — the disease of comparing ourselves to others.
Richard Yeah, it's a terrible idea. And the thing is — a really good thing, I remember saying a while back, is: if you look at social media, it's the highlight reel, not real life. And so what happens is we are comparative, because we think that constant progress is normal, because it's been normalized from what we see in our news feeds, but it's not at all. It is like peaks and troughs, and plateaus, are how it is. It being very hard is how it is. It being lonely is how it is. It costs more effort — all that. That's what it actually is. And so it's just like, you've always got to say to yourself, "Am I just falling for the hype here when I look at this stuff?" So, one of the things you'd asked about focus a minute ago — one of the things I've worked really hard on in the last few years, and really have conquered, is this borderline disdain of social media. And so it's like, why am I using it right now? That's the question. So I have this saying in my head, which is really — and so it's so that I can check myself. And the irony is not lost on me, because I know I'm, like, fairly prominent on LinkedIn, but it's like, it's functional and has utility. I love it. I love the deep thoughts and the things I can share, and the end results I can get. But I'm not here to muck around, and I just can't stand the thought of sitting on social media writing comments all day long, and, like — what are we doing? So, but that's me, and the next person over, like Laura, is a good example — she's someone who's really profited from exposure to social media. So I — but my focus comes from keeping that phone far away unless it's time to use it, in which case I do the thing, then I put it down. So, I kind of, like, I have these little games in my head, these, like, these fun tournaments between me and social media. I've personified social media — who's going to win today? Because, you know, you get a lot of people, a lot of people like to pretend they're the big boss man. They're like, "I'm a boss, I'm a superstar, I'm a CEO." And the moment their phone rings, or there's a beep from social media — who's the boss now? So, I like — I like kind of being strong and not being led by things like that. And I think that that's — that's part of it. Otherwise, you're just — that's where the drift, and the plateaus, really come from. And it's like, what's the action I'm taking right now? And it really does matter for everything you do.
33:59 Should We Find/Start a Community
Sergey Let's transition to talking about community and building a community. You, in the beginning of the conversation, said it's important to nurture the right people. And you have this brilliant community called the Art of Sell community. So, what is it about community that is so important? How do we build one, or should we — should we all strive to build our own, or should we all strive to become part of one?
Richard I think it's a really good question. So, where does it originate from? It originates from this idea I feel of: you are the company that you keep. And so, remember, in fact, one of my strong values is integrity, but is also excellence, and it is directly relational to our results and outcomes — the people we spend time around. So, when I was running sales teams, if I had a bunch of superstar performers and I brought a low performer next to them, that low performer is going to do better. So, being around great people is so important. And so, my accelerator that I started almost six years ago is a membership. It's "come along, learn a thing, get on with your work." And that works really well. And that's a set of people who are, like, high flyers, ex-corporate, and they're consultants and coaches, and that's great, and it's good to be around winners. The thing with the Art of Sell is, we — I was like, "Let's bring some depth in there as well." So, I have two community managers who, like, keep the group interactive as well. But I think it's a case of saying, "Look, where am I spending my time?" And I want to be around excellence. And I think one thing we need to look at when it comes to communities is a lot of people just try and monetize their audience in the form of a community, but I wanted to do better. Again, excellence for me is building a community where I want to be around the people in it, and crucially, therefore, the speakers in Art of Sell — it's not just me or my cool friends from LinkedIn. It's world-class speakers. So, like Nir Eyal, who you may have heard of, who wrote Hooked and Indistractable — he and I were emailing yesterday, he's going to come back on the show. Having people like that, or Chris Do, who I know you've interviewed, or we had Microsoft recently — even the session on peak performance, I had an NFL linebacker do a talk, from the Dallas Cowboys. Like, that kind of level is serious, because what we've got then is inspiration and advice from the top, and it is stunningly closely correlated that when you're around people like that, you get better results. And so, the community is — selfishly — a device for me to improve. It's a place for me to learn. I always wanted to be writing notes, you know, in a community that I'm learning from. But the warning, though, for people, is to not seek out to join, or build, a community that excuses or masks or disguises poor habits. I have seen a lot of communities where they are an excuse to hang out, chat, and not do any work. And the corporate equivalent — and I recognized it straight away, Sergey — is people who just love having meetings. You know, it's like, "Oh, cool, we get to have a meeting." Well, a meeting is an excuse to not do your work. And some people are irritated by them, because they prefer to do their work. And other people are thrilled by them, skipping along with their cup of hot cocoa, because they don't want to do their work. And so it's very telling, the kind of people who are in these communities. And so, each to their own — and it's good if you're around your kin. But ask yourself, if strong growth, like, up here, or in my business, or whatever, is important to me, then what rooms am I actually in? And if you can't find the right rooms, go construct them. And it's, you know, it's down to that advice, isn't it — who do you listen to? If you look at the people you're choosing to have on your podcast, I'd like to hope I'm part of a group of people that you're selecting carefully, because you're like, "These people are worthy of listening to," rather than "who's willing to be on my podcast."
38:42 2 LinkedIn Tips To Implement Today
Sergey I teased people that we're going to give some practical tips. So, I want to ask you to share some tips that all of us can implement today, me included, because I'm growing my business through LinkedIn as well. By the way guys, if you're watching this show and you enjoy it, please subscribe or give me a like — I trained myself to do native call to actions. So, yeah, it's part of the game. So, and I tried to grow my LinkedIn, and the inbound lead generation has been weak, and as you said, I also have an illusion that more followers is, like, getting me closer to my result. So, what are some practical things that all of us can do, should do, and can do, relatively easy, to get ourselves closer to real customer acquisition through LinkedIn?
Richard Great question. Great question. Because, because if you just get more of what you currently have, you are scaling your inability to get customers.
Sergey Mhm.
Richard That's why you don't need more of the same. What we need is to tune at the top. So, there's two great start points that you should be doing at the same time. One is manually — manually curating your audience. Forget for a second who already shows up for your content. Ask yourself each day: who am I adding, or connecting with, who could buy my thing, or influence those who might buy my thing? I need to connect with those people. And when I do that, I send a connection note. And, you, by the way, you don't have to grind 500, like eight a day. It's not many, but, that, across a month, you've added 160 people, specifically curated. What's beautiful about it is, when you send a connection — "Hi, I'd love to connect, you saw a thing they did, you know, something in common" — LinkedIn will now send them your next piece of content. It just almost is guaranteed it will go into their newsfeed.
Sergey Wow.
Richard So, you are now manually, almost, engineering some people that are going to see your posts. So, if I have all the wrong people on my content, but then today I add five people who are aligned, and I message them, even if they don't respond, they tend to now see that bit of content, because LinkedIn's testing, like, "Well, they've just connected, maybe they want to see this as well." It's a very powerful way of doing things, which is why, before you post, you might want to engage with the people you want to see your post. It's stunningly effective doing this, rather than being passive.
Sergey It's, even if they don't reply, they still going to see your stuff, right?
Richard I — no one knows for sure, but it is as close as I can use the word "guarantee." I've even tested it — as simple as, I did a workshop recently over in Valencia, and I got five people in the workshop to click on my profile. They weren't connected. They clicked to my profile, don't do anything else, and then leave. Ten minutes later, we went to their news feeds, and there's my post. They're all fine, they didn't even connect with me. So, when you DM, you're almost guaranteed that's going to go in. Now, it means your post goes in the newsfeed — it doesn't mean they see it, because they have to scroll down to it, of course — but that is a help. Imagine doing that every day for five or six people. The second part — the second start point — is the content. You have to stop immediately doing the kind of content that optimizes for algorithmic reach only. Sure, there's a saying from a wonderful guy — another guest you should certainly have, if you've not already, Richard Van der Blom, who's, like, king of understanding the algorithm. He said: optimize for — no, don't optimize for the algorithm, write for the people, for the buyers. And he's so right. What he means is, like, don't overthink it. Sure, don't do anything silly, do the basics, so the algorithm appreciates your post, but the main thing is to write for buyers. So, how do we do that? What we need to consider is: the right people are not (a) hot and ready to buy, or (b), giving a damn about you yet. So, those two things are the state of a buyer when they see you, or when the post goes into their news feed. They are a cool, passive audience member. But if they're the right person in principle, we need to meet them where they are. Where they are, again, is — not hot, not sold on you. They don't, statistically, they don't have a clue who you are. So, what we need to do is meet them where they are, in terms of mindset. So, there's just, really quickly, there's this matrix — if you read sales books, or books on branding, and so on, you'll see this matrix of three things. One is that there are people who are unaware. They just don't even know what they want. Then there's people in the middle who are problem-aware. So they know what their problem is, they've labeled it. And finally, you've got the people, the holy grail, who are solution-aware. They know what they need to fix it — "I need to do this thing." So, they're looking for it, they're shopping around. But, it's always overlooked — and this is just, this is just me being a geek knowing about this stuff — between unaware and problem-aware sits the vast majority of people, and they are symptom-aware. Symptom-aware means they haven't labeled their problem. They don't know what the problem actually is. They certainly don't know what the solution is, but they are feeling the frustration right then and there. They are losing sleep. So, when you write posts for people talking about your solution, or the problem, you are assuming too much. When you meet them at their frustration — so they're in a dialogue, and how they phrase it — suddenly they're like, "Yes, that's how I — that's me."
Sergey Exactly.
Richard So the key is, yeah, consider how they phrase it — use their wording, not yours, their wording. Even if it's, like, clunky and not elegant, it's how a buyer's phrasing it that describes how they feel. No buyer tends to be thinking, "Do you know what I need? I need a better personal brand. That will help. Let me look for people who write about personal brand." No. The only people who look for people writing about personal brand are other personal brand enthusiasts. A buyer tends to be thinking to themselves, "I'm really annoyed. For some reason, I get a load of traffic on my website, and people even look at my post. Why is no one buying? I just don't get it."
Sergey Yeah.
Richard And so what they need is an expert to diagnose the problem — there's the problem — then prescribe the solution, they give them the solution. And so the simple way to look at it is this — I use this analogy all the time. If I have a wheezy chest and a cough, symptoms, I don't know that I have bronchitis, the problem, or that I need antibiotics, the solution. So, meet them at their frustrations in your content. If you're adding manually the right people, and you're saying things that make them go, "Yes, that's me" — what's happening is you're saying, "I see you." And that's where they're like, "Ah, this person gets me."
Sergey Should we give the solution in the same post, or just recognize the pain?
Richard Yeah. It's these pain points that they've got, but, if you label the problem, it assumes that they completely understand it. Imagine if I was — again, that analogy — imagine if I was talking about bronchitis, it's like only a few people know that they've got that, but they all experience that wheezy chest and cough. So, you have to meet them at frustrations, and then you take them from there. And what happens is we move ourselves through these levels, then, from becoming — from being just an enthusiast about our thing, to being an expert in their eyes, and then, ultimately, the way we want to do it, is becoming their expert. So, they're only choosing me, because what I don't want is people looking for "a conversion coach." I want people who want Richard. There's a big difference, and that's what a strong personal brand really is. And then the selling part is actually just taking orders. It's, and not screwing up the call. It's not that hard.
Sergey That was a blast, Richard. Really, really insightful, and a deep conversation. Thank you for sharing. And any final message?
47:25 Final (Practical) Message
Richard So, in a final message, I just want to say thank you so much, firstly, for listening, and for giving me your energy. But in terms of some things to consider: let's remember, why are we actually here? We're here for client acquisition. So, our activities in the day, at least, must include things that map to that. If we want to scroll and spend time mucking around on social media — cool, but it has to be second to client acquisition, at least when we're in our business hours. The second thing is to say to ourselves: who is it we're trying to target, and how do they really feel right now? Don't project what you want them to feel, but ask yourself, what are they actually going through? The frustrations and the symptoms of their problems are where you meet them. Then, when they feel like you get them, they'll be much more inclined to interact. And all I'll say to finish is: if you're manually adding the right people, and getting into one-on-one interactions with people each day, you can't go far wrong, because, ultimately, your deals require you and someone else to come together and decide to work together. So, that interaction has to happen, at one point, every day. Start some conversations with new people. The rest is the fluff. What matters most is, if you're doing client acquisition work as a mandatory part of every day, it allows you to keep going and enjoy the ride. Thank you so much for listening. I've really enjoyed being part of this, and I will hopefully do this again with you sometime.
Sergey That was Richard Moore, everybody. Thank you, Richard.