Shawn Farson: Navy SEAL Sniper on PTSD, Veteran Transition, Military Mindset, and Life After Service | Be Yourself Podcast

Shawn Farson

Retired Navy SEAL sniper and CEO of Find-a-Fit — on a troubled past, 20 years of elite service, reaching sniper status, the truth about PTSD, and rebuilding identity after leaving the military

Watch on YouTube Find-a-Fit
47 minutes
Military · Navy SEALs · Veterans · PTSD · Career Transition

About the Guest

Shawn Farson — Retired Navy SEAL Sniper, CEO of Find-a-Fit

He spent 20 years in the US Navy — a career that began not with a dream but a desperate need for a second chance, opened by a recruiter who went to court on his behalf

He went from barely being able to swim to one of the few sailors ever to hold the title of Navy SEAL Sniper, with combat deployments to the UAE and Iraq

Who He Is
retired Navy SEAL Sniper with 20 years of service, now CEO of Find-a-Fit and Director of Investments at RFC Capital
Military Career
diesel mechanic to rescue swimmer to CB diver, SEAL qualification in 2011, sniper in 2013, deployments to the UAE and Iraq against ISIS
The Turning Point
rejected by the Marines and Air Force, a Navy recruiter went before a judge on his behalf — the moment he says saved his life
Find-a-Fit
a career platform matching veterans to employers by personality, environment and real interests — not just job title

Key Quotes

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We are not defined in life by our failures. I believe we're defined by what happens next. When you get knocked down, when you fail at something, you only lose if you don't get back up. You've only truly failed if you don't get back up on the saddle, get back up on the horse, and try again.

Shawn Farson
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If you let that stuff build and build and build and compound and keep it locked in the closet, eventually that closet's going to overfill and it's going to explode. And for a lot of people, they experience this when they get out of the military.

Shawn Farson
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We don't sit around and make excuses. We just know how to get things done. We take ownership and we're highly trainable. You got to look beyond the skill. You got to look at all those soft skills — how well do they work on a team, their leadership skills. Almost every single veteran has been in charge of some major responsibility where it was critical that it got done.

Shawn Farson

Episode Chapters

0:00 On This Episode 1:03 The Start of Shawn's Military Career 4:28 The Role of Swimming in SEAL Training 13:06 10 Years Into Service 16:01 Reaching Sniper Status 21:57 Do Veterans Struggle with PTSD? 28:24 Ukraine's Recovery After War 31:40 Leadership Lessons from the Military 35:51 Why Companies Should Hire Veterans 41:36 Reinventing Yourself After Service

Full Transcript

BTW: This episode of the Be Yourself Podcast is produced by Beverly Media. Want a podcast that looks and sounds this good? Check out Beverly Production →
0:00 On This Episode
Shawn I had a little bit of a troubled past. I had no idea what I was going to do with my life. I think by the time I was 20 years old, I was in trouble with the law. When I joined the Navy, true story, I could barely swim. You know, I could doggy paddle. I could get to one end of the pool to the other, but by no means had any type of swimming background whatsoever. The first thing that comes to my mind is the story of Chris Kyle from American Sniper. Tell me from your experience if post-traumatic disorder is uh really widespread. I never personally got to meet him, but a lot of my platoon mates when I was a new guy personally knew him. I'll say the generation of SEALs that was right before me, the ones that were early 2000s all the way through early 2010, like basically Afghanistan, Iraq, that generation saw a different kind of combat.
1:03 The Start of Shawn's Military Career
Serhiy Hello everyone, welcome to the Be Yourself podcast, the podcast on expressing our true selves. Today my guest is Sean Forson who is a retired Navy Seal and the CEO of Find the Fit. It's a career platform plus he's a director of investment at RFC Capital. Sean, welcome to the show, man.
Shawn Thank you, Sergey. How are you doing?
Serhiy I'm doing great, man. I'm excited for this. So, I know that you spent 20 years in the most elite. Correct me if I'm wrong if this is the most elite military institution. So, what led to this and how did it all start for you, Sean?
Shawn Sure. Um, well, I'd love to go into some details about this. So, um, you know, I had a little bit of a troubled past. Um, I had no idea what I was going to do with my life. I think by the time I was uh 20 years old, I was uh in trouble with the law, I uh didn't have a good job and my life kind of was just falling apart in front of me. And I saw the Marines pushing through Iraq. I had a lot of family members that uh were in the Marine Corps, prior Marine Corps, and I had a lot of respect for them and for the service and just felt like it was uh it was a way for me to escape uh my reality. And I grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, and uh there wasn't a lot going on for me there and wasn't a lot of opportunity there. Um and I just kept getting into trouble. I couldn't stay out of it. So, I tried to go to the Marine Corps and I walked through the door all proud thinking they were gonna roll out the red carpet for me and I would get right in and uh when I talked to the recruiter, uh he basically said there was nothing he could do to help me. Um yeah, it was it was a kind of a crushing blow for me, but I think I just had just enough um bad stuff that I did as a kid uh that they I didn't qualify. So, I went over to an Air Force recruiter thinking that uh you know, well, if I can't get in the Marine Corps, surely the Air Force would take me. And uh they laughed me out of the office even harder than the Marines did.
Serhiy Really?
Shawn They're like, you know, you got to be squeaky clean to join the Air Force. And uh it was actually on my way out the door of the recruiter's office. I'm walking past an open door and there's a Navy recruiter in there. He's like, "Hey, hey, where you going?" And uh you know I step in the office and I kind of explained my situation, let him know I just got turned away by two other branches and uh he's like, "Oh well, you know, maybe we can help you." And uh you know, that recruiter actually kind of saved my life. Um he ended up going in front of a judge for me and uh got me got me orders into the Navy. So, um I was very very fortunate, very blessed to be able to leave, uh my circumstances and uh basically just start a new life. And that's what I did once once I left. I never looked back. Now, when I joined the Navy, uh true story, I could I could barely swim, you know, I could doggy paddle, you know, I could get to one end of the pool to the other, but uh I by no means had any type of swimming background whatsoever. Never took any swimming lessons. And swimming is like an integral part of being a Navy Seal, right?
4:28 The Role of Swimming in SEAL Training
Shawn Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's uh it's more than a requirement. It almost has to be second nature. Uh so, I didn't actually uh spend my entire career in in the SEAL teams. I joined the Navy as a mechanic. So, I started out as a diesel mechanic working on um CAT engines and heavy construction equipment. So, I was a CB and um you know, I'd work on Humvees, I'd work on amphibious vehicles, I'd work on these big giant we call them MTVRs, but the ones that are um towing large cargo. Um and I did that for the first couple years. And my first set of orders were in Coronado, California. This is before when I joined the Navy. I didn't even know what a Navy Seal was. Full transparency. And I found out about it when I got to boot camp. Then when I was in Coronado, I got fully exposed to special operations, you know, EOD, divers, Navy Seals, everyone was there. Um, you know, all these classes running by all the time. Um, it was really motivating for me. Uh, I came into the Navy with about almost a 30% body fat and, uh, within, you know, about 6 months of after boot camp, um, I was all the way down to, you know, like 10%. and um had really taken care of myself and I just I just once that door was opened for me I walked through it and I never looked back.
Shawn So there was an opportunity and this is I'm kind of walking you through my whole path to becoming a Navy Seal. So, at my first command, um there was an incident where there was a man overboard um in in a really dangerous situation and they realized they needed to stand up a rescue swimmer program. And we had about 400 people at the command at the time and they asked for volunteers to go to the rescue swimmer school to see who could qualify and start the program. And there was like three people that volunteered and I was one of them. And um I remember a couple weeks later showing up to the test for Navy search and rescue swimmer school and uh one of the requirements was you had to demonstrate all four strokes. So you had to do a freestyle, a butterfly, a breast stroke, right? You had to show all all the strokes. Um but in addition to that, you had to tow somebody a couple hundred yards through the water. And um not only could I not demonstrate a single one of the strokes, you know, as soon as I grabbed onto somebody and tried to pull them, I went I went down immediately. So um I didn't even make it into the school. Um so that was that was a big hit to my ego. And um I just had this attitude at the time that nothing could stop me and I could do, you know, I'm going to really put my mind to this. I'm going to do whatever it takes. Uh, I was pretty fortunate. There was a pool on base. Uh, every day, you know, maybe about three, four days a week after work, I would go over to the pool and I would just start swimming. And I started talking to the lifeguard there and I started talking him through some of my plight. And he showed me uh showed me the way. Uh, he kind of helped me develop my stroke. He kind of helped talk me through some of the things I was doing wrong. And then I just practiced and practiced and practiced and um eventually I went and took another swing at it. I made it into the school. I barely got through the school. I mean, it was a real kick in the junk for me. Um some of those underwater swims and some of those drills, it I pushed myself harder than I had ever been pushed before in my entire life. Um, uh, we started out the school. I think we had 14 people start and I think there was like six people that ended up graduating that search and rescue swimmer school.
Serhiy So rigorous.
Shawn It was rigorous and uh, especially for me at the time where I really was still learning how to swim or or a very novice swimmer. Um, just grueling and pushing myself, you know, watching people that were a lot more graceful in the water and me, I'm just kind of, you know, just digging it out. But I had I had the willpower, you know, I had that um that inner desire to succeed and I think that's what what um got me through it. I believed in myself and I believed that I could make it through. Um and I did and and once I made it through that program, it it really put me on another trajectory. Um within a few months of that, I got recruited to the CB dive team. So, um, the CB dive team is a underwater construction team, uh, in they're out of the West Coast, East Coast, a little bit down in Mississippi. Uh, but they're a very specific there's only, I think, about 400 CB divers in the United States Navy any any given time. Um, they are, you know, underwater welders. We work on, um, stuff that's a lot more nearshore. Um they do all diving support for all of the communities, but they also go out on ships and they learn to do ships husbandry. So Navy divers will be in charge of ships. Well, we were a different class of Navy divers. Um so we were CBs first and then we have the dive qualification and we worked on a lot of stuff that was a lot more uh close to shore. So nearshore facilities um you know stuff like that where um I you know lots of inspections. I did a pier restoration in Pearl Harbor. I got to do some stabilization projects out in uh Hawaii. I got to go all over the world. And and you you would do this all under the water in the water, right?
Serhiy Oh, most everything. Yeah.
Shawn I was a hard hat diver. So I went all the way down to 200 feet. It was like 190. Um hard hat, scuba. Um we we dove all kinds of different you all different kinds of rigs. And then we also operated lots of different tools. So, we worked with hydraulic tools. We worked with um torches, brokco rods that burn at like 10,000 degrees underwater. They can cut through steel. Uh we worked with uh we did underwater welding, you know. So, we did just about everything. And uh during that time, I got to travel the world. I got to see um everything, you know, Japan, Guam, Hawaii, Greenland, Denmark, up and down the West Coast. I mean, I was really uh Philippines just having a having a great time. But I think I got to a point where I felt like I was being called to something else. Um I I don't know what it was. I I think I was I just wanted to keep pushing myself and challenging myself. There was that that um that feeling inside that I could do more and I wasn't doing enough. Um, and then there was a lot of books that I read um about seals in Vietnam that really inspired me to hear about, you know, the the fear and the glory and the um the sadness and just all the experiences that they they had. um you know and and then uh right before my transition into the SEAL teams um I got to read some more modern books about what was going on and it reignited that fire I had when I wanted to join the Marine Corps, you know, when I when I saw the Marines pushing through Iraq and felt like I wanted to be a part of it and I wanted to go, you know, fight for what I believed in. Um, so I did, you know, and and fortunately for me, um, I was given uh, full I did two deployments as a diver and, uh, they put me in charge of the mudpup program, which is uh, training all of the new recruits that are going to become divers. So, I got to spend, you know, two two hours a day working out with these guys, um, kind of laidback in a little bit of a training role, um, not operational before I left to become a SEAL. So, they really gave me a lot of time to build myself, to work myself up, and then even, you know, I didn't know it at the time, but I was working on my leadership skills there, too. You know, uh, working with other guys, being selfless and and bringing them up and, uh, managing a team, you know. So, uh, I think it was a little gold nugget that the dive team gave me right before I left. Um and then uh 2010 uh I went to Buds and became a full-fledged SEAL in 2011 after all of the initial training after SEAL qualification training and then uh went to my first SEAL team uh in 2011.
13:06 10 Years Into Service
Serhiy That was like 10 years into the service or something.
Shawn Yeah, it was close close to that. Yeah, I think I was like eight or nine years at that point. So I, you know, I'd done a little bit of time before um and got to see, you know, got did every job you could think of. I was a mechanic, a rescue swimmer, underwater. Talking of jack of all trades, right? Yeah. So, and and I was just I had this uh neverending uh quest for knowledge. I just wanted to keep learning and keep learning. And um you know uh my first deployment uh was to uh United Arab Emirates. So I was out there in Abu Dhabi and um you know we were we were there working with other countries in the in the region. We were um creating uh plans to evacuate embassies. Um there was a lot going on at the time. Um you know I think if if you recall in 2013 is when Benghazi went down. Um that happened actually shortly after we left the area. Um so so um there was a you know there was a lot a lot of turmoil at the time. Uh my first role in the SEAL teams, I was the uh the adub gunner. So as a new guy, you don't really get a whole lot of opportunity for the cool sexy jobs. You just have to kind of take the take the big heavy jobs that uh you know, we pass them on. Everyone has to pay their pound of flesh. And I had to carry around the the biggest gun in our inventory, which is the the Mark 48, the big uh 762 beltfed uh you know, machine gun. And it was very intimidating at first, but after after you break your body in to carrying it around for about a week, uh you start to own the gun. It's uh it's kind of fun. It's only fun when you get to lay down and shoot it and empty out all the ammo. It's never fun to uh you know, walk around for five miles with.
Serhiy Okay. So, you were just carrying the gun.
Shawn I did a lot of that as a new guy. Yeah. There wasn't I did a couple supervisor type stuff. Uh, I got to learn to be a range safety officer, so I could sign off on a lot of range stuff. Um, and then because I was a diver before, I got sent basically straight to the diving department. Um, I was in charge of the entire troop, so three SEAL platoons, uh, dive gear. I was the main guy in charge of all of it as a new guy. Um, so I worked directly with the Navy divers and I worked to make sure all of the dive equipment was ready whenever we went through any of our our dive blocks of training. I helped maintain all the gear and I helped make sure that, you know, everyone was where they were supposed to be. Um, also as a new guy, I took on dive supervisor roles. So, um, very rarely do you see a new guy not in the water diving with all the other seals, but in my case, uh, there was exceptions where I was out of the water supervising the entire dive, making sure that if anyone went down and something bad happened, I was there to respond and take care of them because they trusted me because of my background.
16:01 Reaching Sniper Status
Serhiy Did uh because I saw uh that on the other podcast of our mutual friend he actually used the word sniper. So did you get to the point of actually becoming a sniper yourself?
Shawn Right. I did. Yeah. So after my so after my new guy after UAE after our first deployment um I returned home and um I was again very fortunate. I was one of the one of the few guys you know not everyone gets to go to sniper school. very few people, typically only about four or five guys from a platoon will ever even get the offer to go. Um, but then once you get the offer to go, um, you have to actually go and you have to outshoot your peers as well. So, you have to qualify for it and you have to score higher than the other guys and because they only have a very limited number of spots from sniper school, you know, and they're training West Coast, they're training East Coast, you know, they might only get 20 guys and they might only do a couple classes a year. So, um, you know, and then the demand as well. You you don't need 20 snipers in a SEAL platoon. I mean, it'd be great to have, but everyone kind of has a job, right? Everyone's got their niche, their role to play. Um, but no, I got to go in uh 2013 after returned from our first deployment. Um, I got to go to Indiana and go to sniper school. It was the best school I think I ever went to. I man I still think back to the times there. Not only just the people that I was with, the quality of the instruction, um the amount that I learned in such a short amount of time, like I felt like I left um so much further ahead or or like I was maybe looking at the world operationally like this and then after snipers go, I'm like this, you know? Um, it just I can't really describe it. Um, you know, learning learning how to stalk, learning how to minimize your exposure, learning how to close distance quickly, um, you know, without being seen. And then obviously there's the opposite side of that, which is learning how to accurately shoot from, you know, 1,400 yards away. Um, combining the two together. And, uh, you know, at by the time I left, I'm spotting my own shots. I'm watching Trace through my own uh reticle, you know, like just the skills that were were dialing in. Um really really built your confidence. It it felt like um there wasn't, you know, there was nothing that I couldn't do at that point after I made it through sniper school.
Serhiy Um I think it overall it just made me a better operator. Um it also it also contributes to your character, right? To your poise, right? the how confident you are, how calm you are.
Shawn I believe I think so. Yeah. I think it um you know having having patience when you need Yeah. Right. Knowing when to slowly move things you need to slowly move through quickly move through the things you need to quickly move through and then execute when it's time to execute. Yeah. I think um it all translates. Yeah. In in one way or another. Um, also during that time, um, was, you know, it was a little bit a little bit of a tragic time for me. I went through, um, I went through a jump master school. So, I was learning to be a, uh, at the time static line jump master. Eventually, I went on to become a freef fall jump master. But when I was in static line uh jump master school, we were on the last day of training and uh there was a a parachuting accident that took a teammate um and it was you know right in front of me. Um it was it was a really really horrible time for the community. Um and it really um you know it was a really good reminder of of how dangerous the job was and what we were you know potentially sacrificing. Um, and also, you know, it definitely left an impact on me every time I went up in the sky, every time I went up in the air, having to, yeah, kind of having to suppress those um those thoughts, you know, and there because there was a lot of uh tragic air accidents in the in the SEAL teams. I actually personally know um two other people that that passed away this this same way. So, um, it was, you know, it was kind of a hard, humbling, grounding time, um, in between deployments. But, um, fast forward a little bit, um, and in 2015, I got I deployed for the first time to Iraq. Um, spent spent, um, about six months out there. That was, um, with the initial push to get ISIS back out. Um, ISIS had taken over Syria at the time. They had taken over large swaths of Iraq. Most of it um was kind of like Baghdad was basically surrounded. Mosul had almost completely fallen. And uh we were there. We had just withdrawn maybe a year and a half earlier. US forces had just withdrawn. And we left all of our equipment for the Iraqis. You know, we left all of our a bunch of Humvees for them, a bunch of up armored vehicles, a bunch of Abrams tanks, all this heavy equipment. and a year and a half later and it's all getting abandoned. You know, ISIS is taking it all over. It's like how did how does this even happen? And uh you know, through that deployment, we basically were just helping the Iraqis um stop ISIS from coming any further. Um and then start starting the initial push to take it back. And um I deployed again to Iraq in 2017 and then again in 2019. And um there's a lot that went down between 2015 and 2019. um with you know just every just about every West Coast SEAL uh SEAL team deployed out there and um you know they all had varying level varying degrees of um you know how they contributed to the effort.
21:57 Do Veterans Struggle with PTSD?
Serhiy I don't know man uh the first thing that comes to my mind is the story of Chris Kyle from American Sniper. Um, and I just want to ask you if there's some some truth. I think there's a lot of truth, but maybe you can tell me from your experience if uh post-traumatic disorder is a really widespread thing that people experience after they come back home. And also, um, is this always a feeling of loneliness? Is there always a feeling of some kind of a pressure that really um is difficult to to handle as you are u doing these high level operations?
Shawn I think those are um you know two very good questions. Um you know I'll say the first thing um you know with you know with Chris Kyle um I never personally got to meet him but a lot of my uh platoon mates when I was a new guy uh personally knew him. Um, I I'll say, you know, the the generation of SEALs that was uh right before me, the ones that were early 2000s all the way through um you know, early 2010, like basically Afghanistan, Iraq, everything kind of died down by about 2012, 2013, 2013. Um, and our our capacity changed. We were no longer the guys kicking in the door. we were the ones training, you know, the uh the Afghanis or the Iraqis to kick in the door and take back their own country for themselves. Um so that generation saw a different kind of combat. Um I think it was sustained operations day in and day out, lots of door kicking, lots of uh trigger pulling. And I think there's a another generation uh of seals, you know, kind of the the ones that came in pretty close to around the time I came in, 11, 12, 13. Some of them absolutely um were thrown into the fire and and have been put in those situations, but I think a large majority of the rest have not seen that kind of combat. Um it's different levels of combat like like where you had to make a decision if you have to kill the kid or not, right?
Serhiy Something. That's right. That's right.
Shawn So, I'll, you know, full full transparency, I think by the grace of God, I've never I've never been put in that situation. Um, so, um, you know, I don't I don't have to when I when I meet my maker, I don't have to answer for for the decisions that I made, right? But I could see how that um how that could weigh on someone. Um, you know, it's it's not a very it's not a light thing taking someone else's life. Um, so with the PTSD though, I think it runs deeper than just combat experience. And I think it's important um to kind of highlight that, you know, PTSD can come from a number of different things. Um, not necessarily just um killing, you know, killing, but um potentially losing people that are close to you even if you're not there. Um, you know, the the trauma of what you're doing. Um it, you know, seeing someone get hurt really badly or getting hurt really badly yourself. Um there's a lot of stuff you don't realize it's impacting you until um everything kind of settles down. Um you know, I would say it it affects some people differently. Um, as far as SEALs go, you know, I think they do a really good job of picking the right people um, in the initial training. I think they do a good job of screening and I think they do a good job of um, through the entire pipeline picking the people that know how to manage their emotions, that know how to compartmentalize, that know how to show up and execute and be calm. Um, how much do we keep bottled inside? How much do we suppress? Uh, you know, I think that's a that's a very real conversation. Um, I think I think that's what happens a lot with um most operators. I think it happens a lot with most people that are in the military. I think we are really good at compartmentalizing. We're really good at saying, "Okay, this is what I need to focus on right now, and don't worry about the other stuff." But if you let that stuff build and build and build and compound and keep it locked in the closet, eventually that closet's going to overfill and it's going to explode, right? And for some people, for a lot of people, they experience this when they get out of the military. And I'm I'm not a a doctor. I'm not a physician. I'm not a psychologist, but I do have a lot of uh a lot of friends in this community, and I've been around this community for a very long time. And I kind of understand it deeply that um when when you're in the military, you have a a certain type of connection. Um you know, especially like me being in the SEAL teams, you know, there was a very real palpable uh feeling that one day, you know, you might have to give your life for the man standing next to you or that person might give their life for you. Um and the stuff that we were training to go do was, you know, with the stakes couldn't be any higher. Um so when you have that kind of um trust, when you have that kind of relationship with people, when you have that kind of uh deep meaningful um bond and then it gets taken away, um I think that's uh when maybe some of that stuff that you've been keeping uh buried inside, tucked away in the closet, whatever it may be, um has a tendency to come out and show its ugly face. And everyone has their own coping mechanisms and deal with things differently. But you know, there's obviously um lots of alcohol. You know, this whole country, yeah, lots of alcohol, but you know, in the military is no exception. And uh there's obviously guys that that turn to turn to the bottle or turn to drinking or turn to other destructive behavior. And it it's sad. I don't have the answers, but um yeah.
28:24 Ukraine's Recovery After War
Serhiy This is interesting because well we have an ongoing war here in Ukraine. I speak to you from Leviv. that's on the western side of my country while on the east um the guy people are dying and Ukrainian forces like I think a lot of us as we think ahead and we finally see some kind of a light in the end of the tunnel that there possibly could be an end maybe in the next year we don't have the answer to how we're going to help people who going to return from war, right? So, the recovery is a very painful question. And to be honest, we had some cases already with uh people coming back and with the weapon who do malicious things. So, I'm really really scared about the future of my country and whether or not I want to I want to raise my kids here. To be completely frank with you, Sean, I think United States do much better job in terms of um you know the programs that they put they put people in. But that's a really really um heavy heavy subject.
Shawn Yeah, we can we can do it. Just I think I think uh we you touch briefly and let's transition to to other more positive subjects if if you may. Yeah, totally. Here's what I want to argue. Okay, I I believe right now um America's war fighters, I mean, you know, we we have been, you know, forged by combat over all over the last, you know, really couple hundred years and have developed into this uh war fighting force. You know, one of the most lethal, most capable war fighting forces that this world has ever seen really. But what drives that? What drives that is the people, right? It's it's military service members. People that are willing to take risks, people that are willing to stand up for what they believe in, people that are willing to go and do things that other people won't, these are the people that are going to help drive the world forward. So while there may be um there will be sadness, there will be um people returning home with PTSD and psychological things. I think the best way is to, you know, have programs waiting for them, anticipate it, help them, be supportive of them, but then keep them busy, keep them, you know, part of the machine, keep them contributing to society and helping move the needle forward. Because I think us as war fighters, I think even, you know, Ukrainian soldiers, they're going to have this edge that other people won't. Um, you know, they've they're going to see life through a lens a little bit differently, but I I truly believe that our, you know, our war fighters are some of the most capable people on the planet. So, don't lose all hope. Um, despite I it's terrible what's happening right now in your country. And I um pray for a fast resolution.
31:40 Leadership Lessons from the Military
Serhiy Um I read between the line and I I agree wholeheartedly. This is what Simon Sinek who who's a organizational psychologist he spends a lot of time with people from military and he says that I think he was given an example of a marine corp or navy seal. So seals he said that that these are most the highest performing organizations on the planet and corporate America can learn so much from these institutions because people are chosen not on the basis of how efficient they are but how trustworthy they are. Right? So you're gonna take a person who you can trust or who might be not like such a high performer over a jerk who's a high performer who you cannot trust who will stab you at night. So trust goes such a long long way uh you know and basically follows greatly what you just said. So can you tell me I think it's a great segue to your company find the fit. Is there something that you took from your military experience that you're now implementing in your new life as and in your company find a fit?
Shawn Yeah. Um so with find a fit, you know, we developed that because we saw a major gap. You know, there's a a huge critical gap right now for uh veterans that are transitioning out of the military. The services that are provided to them are lackluster. you know, there's a a one-day, two-day transition assistance program throws tons and tons and tons of information at you and says, you know, good luck. Figure it out. Um, there needs there just needs to be more time and resources dedicated to what's next. What's the ne what's next after military service? I think it solves multiple problems. Number one, it solves the problem of uh you know the veteran feeling that stress, that responsibility of uh I just left this thing that I was my entire identity and I'm trying to figure out what's next. Um and it also helps uh relieve some of that pressure. And what find a fit is, we're matching people based on where they actually fit. We're matching people based on interest, based on personality, based on environments that they best work in, not based on job title, if that makes sense. Because certain people work better in in different environments. You know, someone like me, I like to work in small teams. I like to be uh in control of decisions. I like to have autonomy. So, I score high as an entrepreneur. I work well in, you know, small businesses, small teams. Other people, they might like being part of larger organizations. they know exactly what their role is. They're going to show up uh you know, they've got their 40 hour uh a week job. They don't want to work overtime because they've got another life outside of work. Well, whatever it may be, um everyone's got a very unique profile and um that's really what we're trying to do is connect people to the right opportunities um with find a fit. So, um, understanding the challenges of transition, having gone through it myself, still being in it, you know, I just retired two years ago and I'm still going through this transition phase and figure out what's next. Um, but but to your question too also, you know, in in my role here at RFC Capital, um, it's the same thing. We work in a small team. You know, we're buil it's all on trust. We have to trust each other um to do our jobs. we have to depend that I I have to know that the guy next to me on my left and right is going to do the right thing in order for keep this machine running and um you know this is a veteran-owned and operated organization find a fit is veteran-owned and operated so I think um I found a community outside of my community if that makes sense I'm I'm working with veterans I'm working for veterans even this real estate syndicate that I work for now we um help veterans invest so we raise money for syndicated multi-family deals and we we focus largely on the veteran community because we're veterans ourselves and we help them get into passive real estate investing.
35:51 Why Companies Should Hire Veterans
Serhiy Can you make a case why should uh companies employers hire veterans?
Shawn Sure. Well, I think I touched on it before, but I'll touch on it again. I truly believe that veterans are the most capable people on the planet. Uh we are highly adaptable. We're problem solvers. We don't sit around and make excuses. We just know how to get things done, right? So there's you take ownership, right? We take ownership and we're highly trainable. you know, just because a veteran doesn't have um two years experience working that exact skill, there's a lot of other things that they did that translate really well um that may be very very similar to that skill, but you got to look beyond the skill. You got to look at all those soft skills, right? The soft skills being how how well do they work on a team? Do they do they have good teamwork? Um how are their leadership skills? Almost every veteran, every single veteran out there has been in a situation where they've been in charge of a small team, a large team, or some major responsibility where it was critical that that got done. Um, you know, I think for a lot of veterans, they have a hard time translating it in a way that people can understand. But all of these things, you know, u highly desirable skills. You can train me. I can work and integrate well in your team. And I know how to lead. I know how to follow. You know, I think there's that profile is most veterans, you know, and I I imagine that translates across most militaries.
Serhiy How hard it is to reinvent yourself after spending so much time in uh in the military and how did you do it while staying not not betraying your values and who you who you truly are?
Shawn Well, I feel like I've spent my entire life uh reinventing myself and I'm, you know, re still in the process of reinventing myself as we speak. Um, you know, about 6 years before I got out, I decided I wanted to get out with an education. So, I went and, you know, I guess you could say went above and beyond um and I got an education. and I used tuition assistance from the military that and they paid for school for me and I went and I got a bachelor degree and I'm like what can I do to set myself apart from my peers? You know I I've tried to project forward and I tried to think about the future when I am in this situation 5 years from now how am I going to make myself uh more attractive? How am I going to make myself more employable? Um, and shortly after getting on my bachelor degree, I decided still while I was on active service that I wanted to get my master degree. So, I'm like, well, I that wasn't that challenging. I'll put it towards getting a master's degree. So, that's what I did. And the Navy paid for the whole thing. I didn't even have to touch my education benefits yet. So, why wouldn't you take advantage of this? Um, well, I I guess I'm just the guy that wants to. And um about 4 years before I got out, I had a situation um that basically pulled me into real estate, my grandparents passed away and the bank was about to reclaim their house because no one in my family had any money to pay the outstanding debts on it. And um I ended up coming in and uh renegotiating the terms with the bank and landing the property. And um I every I learned by reading books and listening to podcasts on uh you know Bigger Pockets and different real estate podcasts and never had any formal real estate education, but I just dove in head first and um I spent the last four years investing in my own portfolio before I got out of the Navy. So I got my portfolio up to 10 houses before I got out. So I left the Navy with 10 houses, a master degree, and as a retired Navy Seal. And I'm like, you know, I want to keep this going. And the reason I was able to make my transition successful, I believe, is because I focused on education. I went back to school again. I had the GI bill pay me pay me to go to school. So, you know what? A great benefit that US service members have. You know, you have the military or the VA is going to pay for your education. Not only are they going to pay for your education, they're going to give you a paycheck on top of it, you know, and for me that was an extra $4,500 a month to go to a private school. Like, wait a minute, who says no to this, you know? Well, there's a lot of people. Most people don't use their benefits. So, I went to school at USC. I just graduated USC last year, University of Southern California. Fight on. Uh, and I'm actually going to, uh, University of San Diego, closer to home now, um, in a master of science in real estate. This is my third graduate degree that I'm working on. And, uh, putting myself in in the student chair is what got me the opportunity, got me in this director of investments chair that I'm sitting in now. Uh, because I went to school, because I took advantage of my mentorship opportunities and I reached out to the people that were trying to help me. um I was offered this position and here I am um you know making offers on multi-million dollar deals and helping them uh stabilize their portfolio. So um you know I'm I'm still learning the role. I'm still growing into it, but um I'd say that I think my transition has been successful because I prepared for it.
41:36 Reinventing Yourself After Service
Serhiy your transition and your your story as a whole is is is just great showcase of resilience and believing in yourself no matter what. So I I do understand you had circumstances in your uh young years right to escape the reality as you said and military was the answer answered the call but then the whole the whole experience uh was so consuming that right that you also had to find the courage and some resources inside of you to yet again reinvent yourself right and start a fresh and this I think these This is the skill that so many people miss is right to not be afraid to become a student again to become someone who doesn't know the answers and just to be flexible and just trust the process. So um as we wrap up, what are some things that you can recommend to young people who are maybe still looking for their place in in this world? maybe who are considering joining some kind of a military organization and also uh for people who are just lost and don't know what don't know what to do in whatever age 30 40.
Shawn Sure that's uh that's I think you you just touched it uh a touched on it a little bit which is um humbling yourself um not not being afraid to ask questions and be hungry for knowledge be hungry to learn. You know, in a day and age where um AI seemed, you know, everyone seems like AI has taken over the world and talking about it, it's really not true. You know, um if if you are hungry for knowledge, like I've been working with AI tools now for the last two years and no one's teaching me, but I'm kind of teaching myself, right? I I'm trying to get my hands on the latest technology, the latest tools. How can I make myself better? How can I reposition myself ahead of other people? Um I think it's number one. Number one is belief in self. It it really is, you know, if I put my mind to something, I can do it. You have to believe that. You can't believe that um life is just going to be a series of failures and you're never going to get ahead because if you tell yourself that, if you believe that, then that will become your reality. Yeah. You know, um I think a lot of uh positive self-talk, but you know, taking things too um this is a lesson from Buds, you know, taking things we call it one evolution at a time. You know, if you sit there on on day one of hell week and you're thinking about the next you know, five, six days that you're going to be awake and then the next six months that you're going to spend getting dragged through the sand and, you know, tortured in the surf, you're going to go and ring the bell immediately. But if you just focus getting on getting through the this next, you know, this next evolution, these next 30 minutes, this next hour, this next day, let me just focus on right now. let's focus on what I can control that's right here in front of me and worry about tomorrow when tomorrow comes. Um I think that um that can help a lot. I also say this, you know, um even in the military, I had um I had plenty of failures and I've had plenty of failures in my life. Um there there was one time where I thought I was going to lose it all. Um and we are not defined in life by our failures. You know, I believe we're defined by what happens next. You know, when you get knocked down, uh when when you fail at something, um you only lose if you don't get back up, right? You've only lost, you've only truly failed if you don't get back up on the saddle, get back up on the horse, and try again. Um you know, use your failures as a learning point. use your uh failures as a measure, but uh it might take you 20 or 30 of those failures until you finally hit that success. But um if you never get back up on the horse and you just let that failure defeat you, then that's what defines you, right? So I I've failed so many times. Um it sounds like it's all my life is just one big success, but there's been so many times where um I hit a wall or I hit this point where I thought there was no way I was going to overcome it. and I believed in myself and I just kept pushing forward. So, um you know our entire life is a collection of the decisions that we make. It's a sum of the decisions that we make. Um and you can decide every single day to make a change in your life, to do something different, to change a habit, to push yourself a little bit harder than you did before, to set a new goal. Yeah. You know, um stop feeling sorry for yourself, you know, just get out there and get it.
Serhiy Sean, before I let you go, where people can find you and what kind of opportunities you're open to?
Shawn Sure. Yeah. Um, so you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm at Sean Farson. So, S h a w n F a r s o n. Uh, look up my profile there. That's the probably the best, easiest way to get a hold of me. Uh, right now I am I am maxed out on my capacity. I'm I'm really helping a lot here at the at the syndicate as I get into my new role. I'm still actively working with Find a Fit and trying to get that platform up and running and into the right hands. Uh and then I've got my two kids at home, so I'm I'm chugging a lot. I'm also I still have my uh my portfolio. I'm an active owner operator. So new opportunities uh they would have to be really really really good.
Serhiy Yeah. Yeah. That was Sean Forson everyone. Thank you Sean.