Chris “Chowdah” Hill

Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy — on commanding nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, morale vs. happiness, loving and valuing your people, and how “the best damn ship in the Navy” became the crew’s own words

Watch on YouTube About Chris
32 minutes
Leadership · Morale · Trust · U.S. Navy · Aircraft Carriers

About the Guest

Chris “Chowdah” Hill — Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy

Navy aviator who commanded nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, including the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, which he took over in 2023 and led on deployment through combat

Followed his father into the Navy through ROTC in college. Today he oversees the management of all active-duty Navy officer and enlisted careers — about 100,000 orders a year across a force of about 350,000

What He Commanded
A 100,000-ton super carrier with upwards of 5,000 people and more than 70 aircraft aboard — “an entire city inside there”
The Turnaround
On the Eisenhower, re-enlistment went from the worst of all 11 aircraft carriers to number one right before the deployment
His Philosophy
To build morale you must love and value people, and give them mission and purpose. Trust is an outgrowth of morale
On Leaders
I fear the leader who knows it all

Key Quotes

“

Morale is that inherent component of a human that allows them to move forward in the toughest of times. It is not happiness.

Chris Hill
“

We get paid extra to be positive and approachable and to be encouraging people to be the best versions of themselves.

Chris Hill
“

I said that our vision is to be the best damn ship in the Navy. And I would say it every single day.

Chris Hill

Episode Chapters

0:00 Intro 2:12 How Chris Got into the Navy 3:53 The Purpose of an Aircraft Carrier 5:55 Internal Climate on the Ship 7:43 Chris's Leadership Style 14:00 The Reasons to Give Your Best 17:08 Importance of Staying Positive 19:15 The Role of Vulnerability 20:47 Innovation vs. Adaptation 24:55 A Career in the Navy 28:08 Top Habits for Young People

Full Transcript

BTW: This episode of the Be Yourself Podcast is produced by Beverly Media. Also on the show:
Omar Khateeb — JobPixel Founder on Video Hiring, Startup Pivot & Building Social Capital →
0:00 Intro
Chris United States has uh 11 active duty aircraft carriers and they're technically super carriers. They're huge. 100,000 tons of displacement. You got upwards of 5,000 people living aboard more than 70 that's 70 aircraft and majority of which are strike fighter aircraft.
Sergey My honor to host a Rear Admiral Chris "Chowdah" Hill who commanded nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. Now he's a Navy career manager.
Chris When you ask somebody, "How did you survive this long deployment?" They say things like, "It was my buddies, people I worked with day-to-day." Yeah. They're working their butts off constantly, 7 days a week for months on end, but they're doing it side by side with other people that they grow to love over time and they love them back.
Sergey What are the pillars for building a team that trusts each other?
Chris You have to demonstrate that you love and value your people all the time. And those who are not loving and valuing their people, they have to be held accountable for that. When you compliment people or their accomplishments, for some reason, they're more likely to trust you back.
Sergey What's the role of vulnerability in the life of a leader, a business leader or a military leader?
Chris I would say to other leaders like this is our job. We get paid extra to be positive and approachable and to be encouraging people to be the best versions of themselves. That's what we do.
Sergey What is the good purpose? What is the good mission that can unite people?
Chris So, you know, my philosophy is it all starts with
Sergey Chris, welcome to the show.
Chris Uh, honor to be here. Um just uh before we start I just want to let you know but anything I say today is uh is solely on my own personal capacity and does not reflect the official position uh or endorsement of the Department of Navy, Department of War or the US government and I'm speaking on my own behalf.
Sergey Duly note. Thank you for this. Yes. Okay, Chris, we're going to talk about a lot of things today. I'm super fascinated by your leadership style and how it can be applied to a corporate world for example and to business. But before we start go there, I want to ask
2:12 How Chris Got into the Navy
Sergey you how did you get into the Navy? Um what's your pre backstory?
Chris Yeah. Oh. Uh, well you so my dad was in the Navy um in 1970 early 70s and uh when I was born in the 70s and my dad would talk about it and uh so I just decided at some point I was going to do it. I ended up doing ROTC reserve officer training corps in college and they helped pay for a lot of that college and then once you do that you you get uh become an ensign in the Navy. So, it was kind of like just something I was going to do and went for it and didn't didn't turn back. So, and I'm still doing it now in my 50s. So, it seems like impossible for me to get out of it at this point.
Sergey Do you feel lucky? Do you feel like you're I was fortunate to have this one direction, you know, that you just took and it progressed so well for you in terms of a career?
Chris Yeah. I mean to be honest like if you don't take a moment just to you know pause and be thankful for where you are and I probably a lesson for everybody uh so many things are happening all day long and you you kind of forget or appreciate what you have and I certainly have been blessed with many things and um you know I'm super proud of that. So there were times where I had to remind myself to be thankful for what I've been given. And uh so that that's that's a that's a kind of a key thing that I I recommend to all people.
Sergey Okay. Uh I'm going to ask you about the uh purpose of aircraft carrier.
3:53 The Purpose of an Aircraft Carrier
Chris Yep.
Sergey I need some education from you uh for for me and for my audience. what's the purpose of it and um what can it achieve as compared to aircrafts that are based on on the land for example?
Chris Yeah. So um the United States has 11 active duty aircraft carriers and they're technically super carriers. They're huge 100,000 tons of displacement. You got upwards of 5,000 people living aboard more than 70 that's 70 aircraft and and uh the majority of which are Yeah. the majority of which are strike fighter aircraft. Um, and so we've had these for more than a hundred years. They they played a huge role in World War II. Uh, helped us win the Pacific. Um, so it's really about the delivery of firepower, uh, lethal firepower down range and the benefit of having a moving airfield. It's really hard to hit, right? Uh so uh you so we got 11 of these and I I just did a social media post the other day and I was talking about five five of these aircraft carriers were out to sea in that very moment. Uh several involved in in fighting uh in in current conflict and uh it's just an extraordinary capability. And the other benefit of an aircraft carrier other than the firepower is that they last for about 50 years. Like so it's a it's like a long-term investment. And of course, we upgrade them over time. And they're nuclear-powered, which means you don't have to for at least 25 years, you don't have to put u fuel in it because the fuel is nuclear, right? So that allows the ship to go fast over long distances for long periods of time. Now, at the same time, you still have to get fuel uh from other ships while underway because you have to use that fuel for the aircraft on board. So, yeah, save some space by not having to fuel your own ship in that in that sense. So that's kind of a the extraordinary capability of an American aircraft carrier.
Sergey And you go you take off and it's like month in the sea in the ocean. You don't
5:55 Internal Climate on the Ship
Sergey see the land for like month. How how is the environment inside? What is the internal climate and what is instrumental you know to keep the mood up and everything you know in in at bay?
Chris No it's tough. I mean, uh, we often debate like how often do you need to get off the ship so that you could go to a port call and kind of decompress for a few days. And, you know, to me, I think about once a month is preferred to get off the ship. But, uh, it's, you know, in in many conflicts, we don't have that opportunity. So, it could go you go months at a time without seeing land or a single tree. And, yeah, so you're you're you're piled in like sardines inside the ship. It is not an easy life and I think that's been evident in recent news and uh you know we have to cope and get together. At the same time, when you ask somebody, "How did you survive this long deployment?" They they say things like, "It was my buddies, the people I worked with day-to-day." You know, they they hang out uh yeah, they're working their butts off constantly, seven days a week for months on end, but they're doing it side by side with other people that they grow to love over time, and they love them back, and they they watch each other's back.
Sergey From engineers to cooks to all kinds of people, right? All over the place.
Chris Yeah. is you it's like an entire city inside there. You got you got firefighters, you got cooks, you got the the engineers, uh you know the the whole gambit. People are doing administrative tasks and then on the side doing fire firefighting if they need to. Uh it's just an extraordinary thing to study as a like a like a giant laboratory. Yeah.
7:43 Chris's Leadership Style
Sergey So if we think about trust and you said that people say that the primary reason that they they survive is because they have real friends there and this companionship is being formed. What are the pillars for building a team that trust each other and what is the what are the leadership qualities that are needed to sustain a team like this? a trusting team,
Chris right? So, you know, my philosophy is it all starts with the creation of morale. Morale is that inherent component of a human that allows them to move forward in the toughest of times. It is not happiness, right? So, as leaders, we all have to kind of collaborate to create an environment where this will happen. Uh, and it causes trust. It's like an outgrowth of trust is an outgrowth of morale. So the first element that I think matters the most is like as leaders you have to demonstrate that you love and value your people all the time and those who are not loving and valuing their people they have to be held accountable for that right so my philosophy said you know to build morale you must love and value people the second part is you must give them mission and purpose you know this is a lesson for everyone in any point in their life you know whether you're retired or you're a young Gen Z trying to get into the world you need to have mission and purpose something that drives you some goals to look forward to and then leaders can give that to their subordinates.
Chris So when you have those things come together um you try to create this environment where people are just a little bit uh more motivated a it doesn't have to be huge doesn't have to be cosmic bliss. It's just you know people are moving forward together as a team and then as a leader to show you love and value them. You recognize when you see that you make sure it's constant recognition of of accomplishment so that people again feel loved and valued. And you know we we find that in environments where you have morale you get trust you start to see success in good productivity when you have good productivity that feeds back to morale. So it's like this constant uh positively reinforcing loop whereas some of us have been in work for companies or uh been on ships where there was poor morale and so that you have bad results which feeds even poor morale. You have this negativity death spiral is what I call it.
Chris So that's kind of the environment for me. I had to like constantly talk about these things to remind everybody in the chain of command like I can't do it myself. I need the whole chain of command, multiple chains of command to comply with this. So I would I would bring in sailors uh several times a week into my office even in the middle of uh combat and we would talk about this philosophy and I would get their feedback. Sometimes they had complaints and my so I I was required to respond to that complaint within 24 hours. You know, whatever it may be. You know, a lot of guys were like, you know, sir, we we need to take a break. We need to, you know, slow down the ship. Maybe jump in the water and get the we call it a swim call. Do some swim calls. And I would say you guys, I can't stop the ship. If we stop the ship, then we're just a, you know, a static airfield like everywhere else. And that could get you targeted by missiles or drones. So uh but I would you know I would constantly give that feedback back and they're like okay the answer is no but at least he gave us an answer right and that builds trust too.
Chris There was an article I read years ago it was called uh the neuroscience of trust and it found that when you compliment people for their accomplishments for some reason they're more likely to trust you back. There's something going on the brain there that I don't fully understand but it actually works.
Sergey You know what? I really love the work of Simon Sinek. He's an organizational psych psychologist and he actually draws a lot of examples from um the Navy Seals and from Marine Corps and he says that uh these organizations are the highest performing organizations on the planet. So he decided to dissect why is that so and how how do they hire and what what he discovered is that they on this um you know on this imaginary uh axis of trust you know and um performance they would rather choose a medium performing dude but high trust rather than uh low trust but highest freaking performer because these people are jerks in the majority of times you know so they would rather train person who's can be relied on who has empathy they would rather train him than take a high performer but who's who's an does that resonate with you
Chris yeah I remember I got a rep a complaint many years ago I was a squadron uh commanding officer so I was in charge of E2 Hawkeyes aircraft and uh we had four of them we had about I don't know 125 people it was a small squadron but I was doing evaluations for people and we had a new guy show up um he was in E6 petty officer first class and I don't want to disparage him in case he reads this but he had just shown up and he was a super high performer and uh when I when I gave out the his ranking within his peer group he was actually on the lower end and he said how how can this be um I am the most high performing person in this organization why' you give it to this other guy who is less performing you gave him the number one.
Chris And I said to him, that number one guy has been here for three years. He has busted his back to produce this squadron. He's not the smartest guy in in in the world, but he is extremely loyal and he gets the job done every day. And so I have built a tremendous amount of trust in him and that, you know, so I have to reward that. He's been vetted, too. You know, when you get a guy that just shows up, they haven't been vetted yet. They might be high performing, but I don't know what's going to happen when you throw some stress on them and then they break down and they they cause hate and discontent throughout the unit. So that you know part of our evaluation process is a vetting process over time. But that resonates with me as well.
14:00 The Reasons to Give Your Best
Sergey Wow. Yeah. And when you say that everyone has to understand the purpose, the big mission, what is the good purpose? What is the good mission that can unite people?
Chris So I, you know, the mission itself, uh, the way I define it is is just what you do. What do you do day-to-day on an aircraft carrier? We launch and recover aircraft. That's our mission, right? And I I added, well, from a sailor input, it was launch and recover aircraft to stomp on bad guys. And so we put that in writing, right? Um, but the the next component is the vision. Where do you want to go? And that's the thing that should inspire people. I am not very creative when it comes to this. So my I said that our vision is to be the best damn ship in the Navy. And I would say it every single day. Then people started saying it themselves. It ended up on baseball hats. It ended up on t-shirts. It was painted on walls cuz you know it wasn't it didn't matter that I mean there was no metric that proved that we were the best damn ship in the Navy. But people wanted to believe it. They wanted to be part of a winning team. And so uh you know I could deliver that just through a few you know careless words. And you know what you will find is if you do all these components right you might start to see elements of being the best.
Chris We had a tough time when I took over uh the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower back in 2023. That ship had been through a lot and uh you know they were they were just coming out of a maintenance period where you're not doing the job you normally do. you're just working on the ship uh to repair it. Uh and we we had a couple inspections that didn't go well and I'm like, man, I'm how am I going to how am I going to overcome this? Because when you when you have these major inspections, they don't go well. It it looks poorly on your whole command and it doesn't resonate when I'm saying, "Hey, we're the best damn ship in the Navy. Like, what's going on here?" So, it was something we had to work towards. And we did. And um over time in a period of about seven or eight months we started to see more results. We started to see better results on inspections. The philosophy sort of resonated to be loved and valued to have mission and purpose um throughout the ship. It didn't resonate everywhere but we had enough to tip the scale in a positive direction.
Chris And then one of the key metrics I was looking at was would would this inv this culture change result in more people signing up for their second enlistment called reenlistment. So that's the retention piece. Are they staying in or are they getting out? So right before Yeah. right before our deployment uh we went from originally the worst of all 11 aircraft carriers in terms of retention to the best number one of 11 right before our deployment in 2023. So, at that point, I I said to myself, I think this is working. I'm not sure if we're the best damn ship in the Navy. I'm going to keep saying it cuz it's working. And uh I just went with it from there.
Sergey If you're enjoying this podcast and you would like to support me, there's no better way to do it, but by hitting that subscribe button. Thank you so much and enjoy the show further.
17:08 Importance of Staying Positive
Sergey Well, I I saw your video where you were showing around the aircraft. We're going to link it here, guys, if you want to watch it. But you were just bursting with positivity and optimism and yeah, how do you sustain this level of, you know, energy and positivity? And do you think you can ever show up being uh in a bad mood or it's a no no, right?
Chris Uh no I mean it's uh it is a trained capability that all leaders have to get. You have to set your intentions every morning and say today I am going to be positive even if I feel like crap. And there were times where I did not want to smile. I felt terrible. I did not sleep. There many times I I couldn't sleep because of the operations we're doing. But I would put a smile on my face regardless. there's the u the science behind putting on the fake smile and convincing yourself that you're you're happy uh in that way. But when I put on that smile, I it would cause other people to be positive which fed back into me and then I was actually positive, right?
Chris Yeah. So you you put on you set the intentions and plus I would say to uh other leaders like this is our job. We get paid extra to be positive and approachable and to be encouraging people to be to be the best versions of themselves. That's what we do. And you know, it doesn't help from a psychological perspective when you're taking your emotions and putting them down and into your stomach. Probably not the healthiest things. So, we we talk a lot about how do we, you know, uh take care of that that those emotions. It's things you could do. There's working out. There's collaboration with friends. For me, it was like reading books whenever I could, like a sci-fi, anything that was unrelated to anything we were go we were doing. I'd read a sci-fi book and would take my mind off of it. There's also breathing techniques. There's all kinds of stuff nowadays that you can do to uh handle some of that stress and anxiety uh associated with things like combat or any other stressful situation.
19:15 The Role of Vulnerability
Sergey You know, I run a business. We do creative production videos for brands and sometimes I don't have the answers, you know, and I'm I'm curious what's the role of vulnerability in the life of a leader, a business leader or a military leader? Can we can we admit that we don't know something? Can we ask for help? You know, maybe someone knows and we're just not asking.
Chris Uh I fear the leader who knows it all. Right. I don't I've met some that would appear to be that way and it I sometimes I find that off-putting. Uh no, you don't know anything like you're thrust in these situation where new new situations pop up. In my case, I was an aviator and now I'm working on ships. I don't know the totality of the ship, right? And so part of your duty is to learn as much as you can and get into the details sometimes so you can understand how things function and that's important. But at the same time, when you admit that you're vulnerable, you admit you don't know something, and you pull someone in who's junior, say, "Hey, can you can you type me in up on, you know, how this component works, you're you're actually empowering them to be part of the leadership team?" And they're proud to talk about what they know, right? So, you get to do that all the time on an aircraft carrier because I don't know, you know, any given moment there's there I don't know what's going on in 99% of the ship in any given moment. It's just it's impossible for a human to get it's 5,000 people like a a lot a lot of people.
20:47 Innovation vs. Adaptation
Sergey Um what is it does does because I I I uh foresee military unit to be something where discipline is uh a main asset basically and I'm I'm curious about the power of individuality on the aircraft carrier like is there a place to uh initiate something or uh you know be someone with new ideas experimentation would you call it a a necessary trait for someone who wants to grow in their career coming up with new solutions and raising their hands.
Chris Well, I I would say there are generally two types of people. There are the innovators and the adapters. And there is some science behind this. The innovators come up with a lot of good ideas. Some of them are not so good, but there's one or two that could change everything, right?
Sergey Yeah.
Chris Um, and I think that's what venture capitalists are into, finding those one or two that'll change everything. But, uh, and they the adapters are the ones that can take something and make it better, right? They adapt it, make it better for everybody else. We need both of these to come together. So, I would get a lot of suggestions from innovators and they're pretty rare in the military. It's probably, I don't know, 10%. I don't statistic.
Sergey Interesting.
Chris uh we we create environment where we we promote adaptation and we kind of push the innovators to the side. So what you have to do is give the innovators a chance. Okay, you got an idea? Why don't you prototype it? Um hey sir, I want to I want to uh create like a an art class, you know, something to do at the end of the day when you know before we go to bed. Uh I want to promote like painting or something. And I'm like, "Okay, uh, if you want to do that, here's who you go to for the supplies. Maybe you'll it'll be something that can be u, you know, de-stressing for some people. Go ahead and do do that, right? Whatever." Right?
Chris Or, um, you have some people that have extraordinary talents, uh, musical instruments, the ability to sing. I think I probably had on any given ship five people that could sing our national anthem perfectly. And it is not an easy national anthem to sing, right? And they they sung it wonderfully. I'm like, why don't we use those talents? And there's also some science that says, you know, for leaders, you have to have hobbies, things you do on the side that kind of enrich you. Um, and so encouraging people to have those, take that innovation, turn it into a hobby, you know, that kind of thing. And I've had a lot of hobbies like at one point it was, you know, doing social media to see how I could, you know, tie in families from into the ship, make them feel like part of the family.
Sergey You saw you posted like uh sailors uh pictures and their moms would ask you to post more. Is that uh is that the case?
Chris Yeah. Yeah. So, you do a couple
Sergey and what's the science behind that?
Chris Here's what happens like as a parent and I am one, you get like a school newsletter from your kids are in school, you're always looking through the pictures to find your kid, right? And I knew that was a thing. And I was starting to get we we weren't pushing out a lot of uh images of sailors initially on my on that deployment 23 uh to 2024. And so uh I ended up putting one or two sailors out there and then the yes the moms wrote they found me on social media and said hey can you put my son or daughter on the bridge give them a cookie. I'm like okay. And then that just precipitated into thousands of requests which I could not accommodate. I just didn't have the time in the day. Not to mention that we were in the middle of a a battlefield trying to fight. So, but I had, you know, my my ship secretary kind of helped organize that for me. It was a good thing. I brought the families in and they felt like they were part of the team. And I want the families to be part of our team uh because they're the ones that provide backup and encouragement to the sailors who might be having a bad day. they call home to mom and dad and mom and dad say, "You're going to be all right. Get back out there." Right? That's kind of what we would see.
Sergey Let's transition to uh the your current title, Navy's career manager. So, uh can you explain what you do exactly? And as
24:55 A Career in the Navy
Sergey a rear admiral, do you still go do you have deployments or or not anymore?
Chris Well, I could potentially have deployments in the future. Uh but my current job is a desk job where um I oversee the management of all active duty Navy officer and enlisted careers. You know, they they might, you know, they'll be on a ship at one point and then we'll send them to shore duty to work at a repair facility or they can be an instructor or they can be a recruiter and then go back out to sea. So we have this like sea-shore rotation uh that that we uh do in the US Navy. And so I have to manage that. We send out the orders, that kind of stuff. Why is this important? Um, you know, what what you're gonna do next in your career is is a high anxiety moment. So, I encourage my detailers is what we call them. These are guys that get on the phone that talk to the sailors, talk about their next job to reduce some of that anxiety. I call it concierge service. I think it u, you know, sometimes we can't give them the orders that they want. We have to send them in places where they're needed. you know, maybe it's a combat zone or working at a staff or a fleet staff somewhere where they could run the combat situation to remote locations. I mean, the US Navy is all over the world. We're an expeditionary force, so we're moving people constantly. Uh I think we do something like I don't know more than a thousand orders per day. We do about a 100,000 orders per year moving people around. A force of about 350,000.
Sergey Wow. But as a career manager, uh do you help sailors and people who graduate from from from working on the on the aircraft? You help them to find the what they want to they will do in life next. Is that correct?
Chris Yeah. And so we have to balance it like they have preferences and the Navy has needs. So we try to link those two up so that we can kind of match that. Again, it doesn't always work. Um, but it, you know, more often than not, it does work.
Sergey So, and basically what you showcased while on aircraft could could translate into what what department might be interested in you, right?
Chris I think so. um is is I I talk to my my detailers and I say, "Hey, you we have to love and value our constituents, our our sailors, right? Uh we have to give them continued mission and purpose." And so when we have those conversations about giving them orders that might be tough, we're talking about why this would help them as well as the Navy. I mean, people want to be part of something greater than themselves, but at the same time, they have personal needs. They have families. Maybe the family doesn't want to move because it's tough to move, especially you have high school age kids and you know they might have to switch high schools. That's a tough situation. So, um that's kind of the the reality that we live in in the US Navy because of being an expeditionary force. But, uh we try to do our best to accommodate.
Sergey Chris, as we wrap up, I'm going to give you a pretty loaded question. Can you
28:08 Top Habits for Young People
Sergey list top five qualities or traits or habits that you think a modern young people should have should build in order to not only have a successful life but a fulfilled life where they enjoy every bit of their time.
Chris Okay, that's good. Um Oh, I wish I had time to prepare for this one, but you can give me three, not not five. It's like The first thing is happiness is not the way. Uh what you want is spirit, right? Don't neglect your spirit. And everyone has a different conception of what spirit is. It could be religious. It could be something else, right? Um but that's a key component of yourself and your personal development. It'll get you through the hardest times. We know that people who have a a religious or spiritual background are more likely to be resilient in some of the in difficult times. You're going to have difficult times. You're going to deal with, you know, friends and family dying eventually. How are you going to get through that? And you know, as a human race, like we have to get through it. We're designed to be resilient. Uh but it's an intentional process. I would say that's the first thing. And it's not about happiness. happiness is there's a book called the happiness trap uh probably worth reading and I did mention earlier like take a moment every now and then maybe this is a spiritual thing I don't know uh take a moment to be thankful for what you do have just think about it thankful for a parent thankful for a friend thankful for the situation you're in and that kind of slows down the universe for a moment there and resets you in a way I have failed to do that on many instances but when I do do it it is uh transformative to me in that moment.
Sergey Right. Um Yes sir. What else can we say to young kids?
Chris Uh do your homework. Maybe that's one like education matters. So when you if you get a if you get a wide breadth of education, you can read the news and interpret it better, right? And understand the context, understand the history behind it. Uh to me that's super important. And that also reduces anxiety because you're like, "Oh, we're going through this again. This is a cyclical problem, right?"
Sergey Yeah.
Chris Um it gives you context in life. Uh also get sleep. You need seven to nine hours per night. You can't There's I've met people who say, "Well, sir, I only need about four or five hours." I'm like, "That is BS, man. You need more than that. You are degraded in any given day. You your reaction time is slower. Your brain's slower. You are just not yourself unless you're sleeping. And I know this because I've had many moments where I never got the right amount of sleep and I was I had to fight through it and uh it could be fairly miserable at times. But 7 to 9 hours, in fact, nine hours if you're, you know, under the age of 18 is probably uh better and none of them are doing it because they're on their phones, you know, collaborating with friends. Like put that phone down and get rest and then you can pick it up in the morning. I don't care, you know.
Sergey Well, thank you, Chris. That was a blast.
Chris Hey, no problem, man. I really appreciate it and uh good luck with the your show and your podcast. I like the topic. It's a great topic.
Sergey Thanks.

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