Ezequiel Abramzon

So he created a character Paul Oswald who was similar to Mickey Mouse and he went to New York with a partner, licensed the right for Oswald to do some animation and businesses and this partner broke the deal and left Walt out of the business.

Oh no.

So in the train back to California, he was drawing characters. He created a mouse that originally was called Mortimer and his wife asked him to change it to Mickey.

Today my guest is Ezekiel Abramson who is a brand consultant who guides fast growing startups to build a singular brand and claim a solid market position. He worked 22 years in a little company called Disney.

Over the years I've seen that the majority of the technology companies are generic like they look and sound and feel the same. At Disney I was you can imagine completely trained about the uniqueness of a brand. The authenticity originality and similarity. So when I started working with companies outside Disney in this new phase, I saw this all the time. I I could see the invisible rules in the market. I could see the patterns and started helping them.

What was the funnest thing that you can tell us about?

Well, first first question, 22 years at Disney.

How did you wind up at Disney?

Okay, so you want the long or the short story?

Let's go with a short one. I'm gonna ask you if I want a more elaborate answer.

Okay. Fantastic. Because there's a there's a background. Um, so I I started working at Disney in Argentina. I'm from Argentina and um um I did a freelance job drawing the characters for the movies division in Latin America.

Wow.

They were organizing a big event in Argentina and uh I was lucky and privileged to to be selected to create the you know the things the visuals that that event needed to uh to have. I worked with a choreographer and a lot of stuff and they uh got to know me and um they offered me a temporary job in marketing to help launch the movies in Latin America and that was a dream come true because I have a long life story with Disney. Um so so yeah that I started like that and then I stayed for 22 years.

Well, uh, but from drawing um sketches to a marketing position, like was this um something that you always envisioned to do or or like

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's go for the long but I I make it short. So So when I was when I was four years old, I participated on a school play in in kindergarten. Uh it was Peter Pan and I was a character and I got in love of the story, the image, the it was my first time leaving the like the show, right? The story and uh I kind of had this uh artistic inspiration. It it feel it felt myself like um like I connected with with the storytelling with the creative and from then everything in my life was art, creative, design. I studied uh illustration, cartoons. I freelanced for many many years. I studied graphic design. I was a typography teacher in Monoses in the University of Monoses. Uh I devoted myself to creativity and and and art and you know freelance here, freelance there. I worked um with uh with many many companies in different industries. And at the same time that I was developing my my creative career, I started with computers because I am part of the first creative generations that used computers for design in the '9s. So I I am I lived the transition from drawing logos with with a hand and and signs and everything to the first computer designed anything.

What did what did you use? What was the software the first software that you

uh Coral Draw Coral Coral Draw and yeah pretty quickly I moved to the one of the earliest versions of um Illustrator uh for PC and then I moved to Mac very quickly and and stay forever.

Yeah.

And but I worked also in computer animation in the year 93 1993. So this is before Toy Story which was the first computer animation movie ever

by Pixar where when Steve was there right?

Yeah. Yeah. So so I was I was you know full into creativity design uh storytelling. I got into computers and design in computers and animation and then um I was doing a lot of freelance in that and then Disney called me and I did some creative for Disney and when I joined Disney as a marketing person.

How old were you? Were you old uh young?

when I formally when I formally started been 22 23.

Mhm.

And uh and so I've been freelancing for several years. I've been a teacher as I told you and and when I joined Disney I asked where are the websites because I was freelancing websites and doing some stuff like CD ROMs. I don't know if you remember you.

Yeah, of course.

Okay. So, so the question was not like that but it was like what is a website? So I started, you know, digging into it in at Disney and I found out that there was a Disney online division. So I connected with them and we launched the first websites for Disney in Spanish and Portuguese.

Wow.

Ever.

Yeah. How cool is that?

Was really cool. And because of that, I I was the guy doing the internet stuff and the digital stuff for the first time for the company. And I stayed as the digital leader for for many many many many years until I moved to Europe because in 19 sorry in 2018 Disney acquires Fox.

Okay.

Big big juggernaut acquisition and and merger and the Disney started to change you know the shape.

Just just for the just for the context um when was did Disney born like when when was it born in America? When was the uh uh company um sort of instituted? So in the 80s

Walt Disney Incorporated Disney the company in 1923.

1923. Oh my god.

Mickey Mouse Mickey Mouse was created in 28.

Yeah.

Snow White was the first animated long feature 34 and then everything else.

And I think there's a story about uh Walt Disney sitting on the bench coming up with Mickey Mouse or something.

No, no, no, no, no. Something like that. Apparently, this is a story. So, he created a character called uh Oswald, who was similar to Mickey Mouse, and he went to New York with a partner to license the rights for Oswald to do some animation and businesses. I I I recall it this way. And this uh this partner uh broke the deal and left Walt out of the business.

Oh no.

So in the train back to um to California from I think it was the East Coast, uh he was drawing characters. He created a um a a mouse that originally was called Mortimer.

Mortimer.

and his wife uh asked him to change it to Mickey. And in so in the way back from this failed business, he created something that changed entertainment forever.

And I mean this is this is such a telling story because a lot of times when we business people do something, we're so focused on this thing that we want, we that we disregard other opportunities that arise on our way, right? And the and and a lot of times these the best opportunities arise from the need.

Totally. Totally.

And and and of course um understanding the distance and the difference from all Disney and myself. I I had the same connection with with creativity and cartoons since I was a child and it carried me uh forward in my entire life. Even after Disney, I um I creativity is my life. and what I do with uh founders around the world now that I can share with you in a minute. Um uh it's full of creativity design um it's uh it's storytelling is is a lot of creative work that in the world of technology it's always used for product but not for brand not for marketing a lot.

Interesting.

Uh so I I find I found myself in this new phase of my life after Disney uh channeling all that creativity through guiding these companies technology companies uh in the creative life.

So um you were in Bu and Osiris at the time. So you were

Yeah. Yeah. I'm from Argentina.

You worked there when you were with Disney?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Disney, I don't know if you know, but Disney has offices in pretty much every country and it's been opening offices over the decades and in particularly in Argentina, there's the regional office who who manage Latin America as a region from Mexico, Brazil, every country towards the world, the the south. And I was lucky to be Argentinian at the time. I was lucky to to be in the in the team that ended up leading the region for many years. and uh we did a lot of fun stuff.

What was the funnest thing that you can tell us about? What is what is the thing that you're proud of the most or maybe something that was really entertaining to you?

Well, look, um, I I did many many things that in, you know, you know, now we give for granted, but since I, you know, I led the the launch of the first websites, the first apps, the first social media pages, you know, when, you know, because we were interpreting and and and activating everything digital for the company as things were developing. the first tweet for our for our region, the first Facebook friends uh we launched which which now which now is like millions of followers, right?

The the account that you started

it was billions in in a few years already for because Disney is has a has a scale that that over over the years it was built. Uh we launched virtual worlds, video games, apps, mobile games. Uh I developed personally developed the mobile business for Disney Latin America which I don't know I'm not sure if you remember or used but we used to download wallpapers and ringtones in the phone.

Yeah.

And people used to pay for that. So I was traveling across countries you dealing with mobile operators um helping them understand that we can build a business. We build a multi-million dollar, dozens of millions of dollars out of content on the phone. And that was actually my first business experience because I was a creative for Disney, but he was a digital guy as well. So as a digital guy, I was invited to develop the the business part of the digital world as it started in the world. So So we did it. Um, one thing that we did though that it was more analog and and earlier in 1999, I think it was very early in my career, we launched a movie theater branded with Disney in Argentina. So, uh, it was one of the only 100% Disney branded theaters in the world and 100% of the movies in that theater were were Disney's, of course, uh, reruns of movies and and a lot of kids stuff and it was all decorated inside and it had lights and it was kind of an attraction, but nothing to do with the parks, of course.

Wow, it's so cool. I mean, I got goosebumps. meaning I think you just you just speak to this part of me uh the kid inside of me and I think we all have a kid living inside of us who we want to connect with you know we don't a lot of times we'll lose touch with the kid inside as we grow right but still we got to play life is a play and um for me specifically being a creative agency owner I find a lot of play in my job in my work in my line of work because I think when you're closely connected to well we do video production and it's sheer creativity. Yes, we do we do have guidelines from the customers but still it's like a canvas and you're drawing right and it's so cool to play like that. So you were always um surrounded by by you know this canvas right where you would you would create and draw something. Tell me.

Yeah. Yeah.

You want to comment?

No. Yeah. Just a quick comment. It's interesting because as an artist, you create your own stuff. You express yourself. You do whatever you want.

Yeah.

And you channel your imagination, your um your soul through whatever art tool that you use. Could be singing, could be acting, could be drawing, writing, whatever it is. Working at Disney is a different kind of channeling because it's not your story, right? It's someone else's. So you have to interpret and follow guidelines and strategies and teamwork and collaboration with a lot of people that make out uh these stories and the ex uh expansion of these stories into different things like a movie ends up being a toy or a doll, a car, a bicycle, it could be a song, it could be a an attraction, it could be a promotion with a mobile operator. You know that that idea it's expanded through 70 different industries and we happen in the regions happen to be responsible to um to help the company interpret not only how that can work in our markets but also culturally how can we add some some flavor from the countries whenever you do so for example um Disney has a big licensing uh business and over the last five years I've been in the company. I I had the privilege to lead hundreds of creatives that are responsible for working of working with the biggest brands in the world to co-create products, t-shirts, shoes, uh jewelry, cars, uh toys, whatever it is, food, and and interpret in multiple uh categories and and creative outlets how these stories live in people's lives, you know, like how kids are going to play with a with this bear or this mouse of this princess, you know, and um and imagining how this could be uh in the life of consumers. So, it was an amazing experience over the years.

Yeah. So a a lot of adaptation um interest and it's so I'm trying to ask you where where was this shift and was it difficult for you from a creative to become more of a savvy business person analytical person you know researching the market and stuff like that.

It was uh an incredible journey um in many ways. I had many reinventions in my life. Uh for example, before joining Disney, I was my own boss and I was, you know, a freelance or a creator working with a lot of clients. Now at Disney, I have a boss, you know, colleagues, different areas. You you need to follow process and and and hierarchies. So I had to learn what it is to, you know, to to create and and work in an environment that is

Do you have some culture cultural code? Because I know at Pixar and in big corporations, they they do have like

every company every company and I I work with entrepreneurs and their startups right now and every company has a code.

Yeah. Ethical code in a way

ethical. No, no. cultural uh relationship dynamics uh business process you know there are a lot of things on how people you know companies don't exist human beings talking and signing papers right so uh so these human beings talking every day all the time create a certain dynamic that then be when when when you have more people in that same dynamic we call it culture because it's the way these people relate understand life or work or or business so Every company is unique. Every company creates its own uh culture. And Disney when I joined was a 70 uh years old company, 80 years old company. So it had already generations after generations of executives building this culture. So I inherited the way people do things and and and and the learning curve of hundreds of thousands of of professionals and creatives. So when I joined, I had to learn how to how to be a corporate animal, you know, and and follow a process, report to people, you know, do be very specific in the way you communicate. Uh over the years, I I had to be a boss for the first time. I had to build a team and I had to learn how to lead others as a as a as a company. Then I had hundreds of people with with seven lines of reporting uh in my team. So, I had to learn how to be more human again because I was kind of a um a higher figure in an organization that never sees people every day. Uh you you need to you start forgetting the names of people because there's thousands of people around. So, you need to be human again. I had to relearn all of those things. Uh I had to learn how to do business in English. I I had to learn Portuguese because I did business and I led people in Brazil. So I had to learn how to do that. Um and of course all of the technology side and and the development of these uh businesses as well. I traveled around the world uh pretty much every continent. I I visited every single Disney park except from Hong Kong. Every everyone else. So, so it's been a it's been a wild journey.

Wow.

Let's transition to the next chapter of your life then because um right now you have Singular Brand Company where you work with startups. So, um what is Singular Brand? And I'm interested to know if the lessons from N I'm sorry, Disney. I actually had another guest who works with Netflix. His name is Chris. he draws uh animations for their um for their Greek um adaptation and and it's interesting yeah that uh I kind of see parallels between you guys but yeah I just wanted to know if lessons from Disney can be applied to what you're teaching now it's with singular brand

of course um I specialize in helping startups position their companies and build strategies to um gain a leadership position in the market, right? And I I do this because over the years I've seen that the majority of the technology companies are generic like they look and sound and feel the same. They are all saying the same things, copying each other. So uh at Disney I was you can imagine completely trained about the uniqueness of a brand, the authenticity, originality and singularity. So when I started working with companies outside Disney in this new phase, I I saw this all the time. I I could see the invisible rules in the market. I could see the patterns and and started um helping them out maneuver these things and I developed a methodology uh to help them do this applying of course all of those uh years at Disney. Um and uh so far I work with over a 100 companies in 30 different verticals or industries with more than 20 countries. So it's been a while these fi past five years. uh and everything I do it's rooted grow grounded in my learnings at Disney for for sure and I can explain why how is the methodology and and what are the um principles of uh of my experience that are applying this uh um methodology but you ask me

yeah but first you can just tell us what are the pain points or what are the common threads that you see among these uh companies is this what you what Chris do on my show he said that if you if you're like a bag of rice you become a commodity you know so you're pretty much doomed and because you're you're forced to compete on the level of a price when you're like everyone else so is the biggest problem that you see and that you help tackle is this uh you know gray gray being gray

well I put it in three layers three levels of problems.

Okay.

Right. U I can go either bottom up or top to bottom. Um from the from the from the most simple to

Okay, perfect.

The most simple then is top top to bottom. So the first thing is what I told you that most companies have a forgettable presence. You put five companies in the same category and almost everyone is saying the same things. They are using the same pictures and I have thousands of examples of companies in AI, in mobility, in finance, in education, in logistics, whatever you are, every

like when you're in a supermarket and you're trying to buy like, you know, like I don't know a soda, right? They're all similar pretty much.

Well, yes. Let's let's talk about uh for example, mineral water, right?

Yes. Better. Yeah.

80% of those brands are pretty much the same and it's a commodity product and it's a race to the bottom in terms of price or if you bring something a brand a singular brand if you need uniqueness you become Evian for example who triples the average price of the category Evian is let's say three $3 and every other brand is below $1, right? And that's because they built these intangibles on top. But um so the first thing is that they are pretty much generic the same boring complex ambiguous. Uh it's really difficult to understand what they do why we need to pay attention to it. Um and in in the world of B2B uh pretty much every company is using the color blue. um is using these 2D characters like a PowerPoint presentation, you know, it's these uh cartoons instead of us instead of using humans. So, it's pretty um pretty boring and uh very difficult to differentiate from one to the other. Below this, the second layer is that the uh value is not clear. they are commoditized and that's because they didn't do the homework to uh work on the positioning of the company understanding three things. One is who am I serving? So it's clear for them when I talk to uh the market that they see me as the solution for their problems. Right? So who's your customer? Uh the second part is these customers that have problems are assessing the alternatives to solve the problem which are my competitors. Sometimes this competition is not uh is not a company it's a way of doing things. So you need to understand these customers who are you focused what are the alternatives they are using to solve their problems. So you see the market in a different way and then that difference you define it as your u differentiated value right so the positioning of your company is a unique place you you occupy in um in the people's mind so they think about you connected to a solution but when you say when we say unique you need to define unique to whom unique compared to what and unique how Now uh that's the second layer. The problem with the positioning is that companies uh you know develop the product and they maybe get funding or they have some money and they go and do marketing and try to bring people to the product but without even clarifying what these things does for whom and how they need to perceive it in a way that is different than the others. Make sense?

Yeah.

Um and the lower level of this why so this is a chain of events like why these companies feel generic is because they didn't do the positioning homework and why they didn't do the position in com homework is because the third layer which is a management layer which is they are misaligned they are they are not talking to each other and they don't have a strategy that puts the one direction that the company needs to be uh to to follow uh and the you know the guidelines in a way the decisions that we make to move forward the business to make it grow to to find the growing formula that we are going to repeat when I ask uh co-founders uh what do you do and why should people pick you uh co-founders from the same company give me different answers sometime sometimes opposite answers and so if co-founders have this misalignment You can imagine the entire company or the rest of the teams going in multiple directions. So, so first we correct this. We align people in the same room. We work on this uh in this um methodology that I have that I can share with you. It has five steps provided that I explain why we do this. Um then we work on the positioning of the company, understanding the market, having a point of view in the category, saying something new, having an opinion of the problems in this world and why we exist, and then building up a a brand narrative, a story, the style, the wow moments that we bring uh for this brand that expresses and connected with people, engages uh customers. and finally brings them interested in what we do.

I'm going to segue back to your story and your personal perspective. Why startups? Um what drives you uh you know working with startup owners um coming from a corporate to as as I understand more dynamic sphere. Does that something that really played the role for you?

Yeah. So I started as an entrepreneur. I I started a freelance business uh and I I did a lot of things. I started a a small agency uh that we failed miserably. Uh I invested in in a startup uh over the years as well and I've been a co-founder um as well in the health business and uh and I since I have a memory I I felt that I was a I was part of the tribe. I was an entrepreneur but I joined Disney very young. But at Disney I was kind of a entrepreneur you know because I I I started the digital business in Latin America from zero and we take we took it to hundreds of millions of dollars a business over the years.

Yeah. You were like you're like a startuper with endless budget and

and and you need to understand you know the movie business, the TV business, the parks business, multi-billion dollar businesses and then we were the digital guys very small trying to uh get the attention of the of the marketing calendar and the budget and and the leaders to give us support. So it was we were scrappy and we were entrepreneurial and we built a beautiful thing for the company in Latin America. Uh so I've been always uh in the technology world as an entrepreneur, entrepreneur, you know, within Disney and I always I always uh uh I've been a mentor to startups and founders. I've been a I've been in a judge in competitions over the years. Uh so I've been always part of the of the of the digital world and and and startups. So, it was obvious for me to to stay there uh when I left the company, but it was a complete different game. Um because I didn't have the last name, right? I was clear from Disney. That was my last name. Um and uh but it was it's extremely um for me it's um I feel a tremendous sense of contribution with this community, the entrepreneurial world. I I feel part of it. I understand it. I've been always part of it and my mission is um is help them uh build the singular brands uh which for me a brand is a legacy it's not a product.

Yeah. Do you do you see that a lot of entrepreneurs lack proper business experience? you know like a lot of a lot of startup owners they haven't had a prior experience in a big corporation like you did. So do you see that you know some of them might could use you know being in a place like Disney and now they're growing this new thing without this experience seeing how big companies operate.

It's a good question. Um it depends. Um if you there are plenty of entrepreneurs, founders of great companies that this company was uh their first job right this company was job number one for them and they stayed in this job they were successful and the company's there right but then um the majority of entrepreneurs in the world were employees first

some first yeah

yes So uh you know um building a company was the solution to either not having a job anymore. The necessity of you know doing something because they didn't have a job or the passion the um the drive to create something new you know getting love or obsessed about a problem in the world and seeing the solution in their minds and and wanting to execute it. Uh the average I I believe the average entrepreneurial age is over 40 years old.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Some founders go up to 50 somethings. So uh I wouldn't say that uh actually the majority of people would I would say that they have had a job and had a business experience depends on the experience right uh you could be a barista and then launch a an education business or you could be a corporate that you've been 15 years 20 years in a company and then launch something different or based on your expertise. The world right now um is full of opportunity. It's very difficult to compete but you can compete uh because you have global tools for distribution, building your audiences, free uh platforms to do whatever you want. The cost of entry is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Uh but the thing is how do you execute? How do you distribute it? How do you grow it? How do you uh focus? How how many hours do you uh give yourself to the project? Uh it doesn't matter if you of course if you have millions uh you will have more resources to go faster but there's a lot of people and great cases of people that has had no money and they build huge companies.

So as we wrap up uh what is your ICP? I mean what stage should the startup be on right to invite a brand strategist like you and also how people can connect and what are you open to as far as opportunities

the um over the years I've been squeezing it a little bit as you know the uh preaching you know how do you say um walking the talk because I I I asked people to niche down and and to to focus on the segments uh because over the years I I worked from uh uh solarreneurs and the napkin naming the company helped them build the business towards scaleups and companies with multi-million dollar businesses already hundreds of people but now I'm focusing more on what we call the post seed uh round startups I don't know if you remember or or know you know in the world of investment and and venture capital you go through phases uh when you get funded for your company there are several stages and there's one particular moment in that journey between what it's called the seed fund uh funding round and the series A I I I'm not even going why they are named like that but between those two there's a particular moment whether where a company starts growing or dies is a breaking point in my experience and that's why I go there to to break to make it or break it with brand betting all in into um creating something that uh that lasts for years but leveraging the power of of of branding the power of creating the intangibles on top of the of the product which is the functional part that most do it later and say okay well when when we have more people when we have more money but that's the moment between seed and and series A when you become a serious contender there and that's when you need a proper brand started.

My final question will be um if there was like a slogan it can be a well-known slogan or something that you uh kind of made up uh what was what would be the slogan that you abide by in your life or you live by in your life?

You got me you got me offside. Uh never asked this question. Um a slogan like a famous slogan that I can adopt

can can be someone some brand slogan or um or your perfect you know wordings you know something like uh yeah probably the slogan is the the word a quote.

Yeah. Well, I let me give you a quote from an Argentinian writer that I love that I use it a lot that I have written in my mind all the time.

Okay.

Uh, of course, he he wrote it in in Spanish, but I I would say it in English, which is the future is not what's going to happen. It's what what we are going to do, right? And it's from

created.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, it's from Jorge Luis Bourhees, one of the biggest Argentinian and Hispanic writers in the world. I I suggest everyone looked up uh but yeah I I don't I don't believe in in inertia in you know waiting for things to happen trusting fate uh I've been always pushing and doing my own story and choosing my own uh journey and that sentence that quote spoke to me since the first time I wrote it. I I I I read it and uh and yeah, I I I live by it. I try to build the future every every step in the way.

Thank you so much.

Thanks. Thanks. It was fun. It was fun to talk about Disney again. It's been a while and uh talk about creativity as well. I'm glad that we did it.

Glad we did it. Cheers.

Cheers, man.